Excellent Athlete Beginning Petrov Model

[vaultman18]

Tim just curious but what type of work are you having her do away from the pit?

PS
Don't make this more complicated than it is. You look as if you are doing a fine job teaching her to vault. If you you haven't already seen it you should check out the new BTB DVD ie: Isi's workout session with Petrov.

[powerplant42]

Yeah, she's doing incredibly simple stuff to improve her vault, which would be easy to put into your own practice routine. But once again on the topic of her step being out, maybe you should look at her penultimate and take-off steps to see if those could be the problem.

[achtungpv]

Looking at Warmerdam and knowing that it is essential to learn to stiff pole first to learn the Dial / Huvion model means that there are fundamentals in common.

I would say it's essential in the soviet model also. Yuriy Volkov never allowed beginners to get on a bending pole until they cleared around 3.70 on a stiff pole. This was partly due to a lack of small poles in Russia but also because of technical problems that inevitably developed when a beginner bends the pole from the very beginning of their instruction.

[Bubba PV]

AMEN!! ALL of our kids go stiff poles for the first eight weeks. Bubba

[Tim McMichael]

Looking at Warmerdam and knowing that it is essential to learn to stiff pole first to learn the Dial / Huvion model means that there are fundamentals in common.

I would say it's essential in the soviet model also. Yuriy Volkov never allowed beginners to get on a bending pole until they cleared around 3.70 on a stiff pole. This was partly due to a lack of small poles in Russia but also because of technical problems that inevitably developed when a beginner bends the pole from the very beginning of their instruction.

I would go so far as to say that the ability to stiff pole determines the soundness of your technique. If you can't stiff pole, you are on the wrong track, no matter what model you are following. I am so excited about Tracy's jump that I haven't had her stiff pole enough. I really think she can jump in the high 12's by the end of September, but I want to be sure that we are patient enough to firmly establish the fundamentals. Thanks everybody for the suggestions and observations so far.

I know this is showing off, but I really am proud of this jump.

http://www.treemo.com/users/tmcmicha/ch ... tem/72149/

I am beginning to believe that the disagreements between Altius, Agapit and myself may not be as significant as they appear on the surface.

[Bubba PV]

Feel free to "show off" Tim. That's how we learn. As far as differences between views of coaches, I have found that many are saying similar things in ways that we don't relate to - so we mostly agree but don't know it until something clicks. How often has that happened with our athletes where something we've said repeatedly is immediately fixed when someone else tells them the same things in a different way?

I know Alan well and consider him a friend and always know exactly what he is speaking of. I also now Roman but it took me a bit longer to understand his concepts. MAN, do I depend on both of them and their views for direction.

Good post Tim - thanks for that! Bubba

[master]

Great video Cornel.... I mean Tim.

Regarding coaching your lady vaulter, I personally wouldn't worry about making her jump only straight pole for any length of time before trying to get her on an appropriate bending pole. She has enough ability already demonstrated to justify getting exposure to bending poles. I would have her do stiff pole vaulting as part of each jumping practice for half the time and encourage her to carry over those techniques onto the bending pole.

- master

[vault3rb0y]

If only every high school athlete in america could get HALF the quality coaching you guys have here, 17 feet and 13 feet would be what it takes to place at state meets around the country. This is all pure genius... seeing the best minds in vaulting come together to coach a single vaulter. Shes so lucky!!

[altius]

"The Petrov Model may be the way to go, but keep an open mind do not forget about Vigneron (if you have Mechanics of the Pole Vault read his responses), Joe and your technique. Maybe you could combine the best of both worlds develop the McPetrov Model ."

The Petrov model IS THE WAY TO GO - do not mix and match it with any other approach to the vault - or you will be back in the land of myths and misunderstandings that currently befuddle the minds of many vault coaches.
I have already provided some private comments but I suggest that while you work on the full run up IN PARALLEL with your other training, you do not try to vault from a full run for AT LEAST 4 months. Until then the max run should be 8 steps. Good luck.

[lonestar]

I know this is showing off, but I really am proud of this jump.

http://www.treemo.com/users/tmcmicha/ch ... tem/72149/

Tim, (and especially Alan)

I like that jump a lot! I'm currently training a 4 week mesocycle with nothing but steel/straight pole jumping and having a slight problem. When I was young, everyone was taught to do straight pole pop-ups with jamming the left elbow inside the pole to crank back as far as possible until it felt like your right forearm was going to snap. Since then, I've been told by numerous people not to reinforce that habit and to let the left elbow/forearm go outside the pole, like steel and bamboo vaulters did. The problem is, although I'm keeping a narrow handspread and driving both arms to vertical as actively as I can, when my elbow goes outside the pole, my swing dies. If my left forearm contact the pole, I use it as a fulcrum to swing around. In watching your jump, it looks like your left forearm/elbow is outside the pole, but it doesn't seem to limit your swing. Can you offer any insight as to your thought process (if there is any though) to that left forearm/elbow on a straight pole jump?

[Tim McMichael]

I know this is showing off, but I really am proud of this jump.

http://www.treemo.com/users/tmcmicha/ch ... tem/72149/

Tim, (and especially Alan)

I like that jump a lot! I'm currently training a 4 week mesocycle with nothing but steel/straight pole jumping and having a slight problem. When I was young, everyone was taught to do straight pole pop-ups with jamming the left elbow inside the pole to crank back as far as possible until it felt like your right forearm was going to snap. Since then, I've been told by numerous people not to reinforce that habit and to let the left elbow/forearm go outside the pole, like steel and bamboo vaulters did. The problem is, although I'm keeping a narrow handspread and driving both arms to vertical as actively as I can, when my elbow goes outside the pole, my swing dies. If my left forearm contact the pole, I use it as a fulcrum to swing around. In watching your jump, it looks like your left forearm/elbow is outside the pole, but it doesn't seem to limit your swing. Can you offer any insight as to your thought process (if there is any though) to that left forearm/elbow on a straight pole jump?

The trick is to understand that your turn will bring the left elbow to the other side of the pole. To stiff pole high the elbow has to be outside the pole through almost the entire jump.

[lonestar]

The trick is to understand that your turn will bring the left elbow to the other side of the pole. To stiff pole high the elbow has to be outside the pole through almost the entire jump.

I was really getting hung up and lots of bruises on the inside of my left bicep. I told Dave Butler about it and he told me I had to be pulling. I didn't believe it at first, but really attempted active arm extension upwards not only at the plant but during the swing, and it just clicked. I no longer got hung up on the pole, was swinging much faster, and like you said, the turn brought my elbow around the pole without me thinking about it. You couldn't see a noticeable "pull" before, but it was more of a bracing that I changed into a "push" that made the difference. Being "elastic" in the shoulders instead of rigid. Having a hard time getting my vaulters to do it consistently but seeing some rays of light. Thanks for the input.

Kris