Gill labels

[stormvault]

I wasn't sure were to post this so I figured equipment would be best. Has anyone ran into the situation where the label that Gill sends doesn't match the engraved weight of the pole, because the pole was made before the implimentation of the best flex system? I guess it would be more of a problem in a meet situation with a meet inspector who checks the poles?

[rainbowgirl28]

You can request a new label from Gill http://www.gillathletics.com/pdf/WPVLRR.pdf

[stormvault]

What I am asking is has anyone ever run into problems in a meet with this. For example you have a 14' 150 pacer pre best flex. You send in the flex number when ordering the label they send you a 155 label because of the best flex system.

[souleman]

For high school weight ratings, the label weight rating must match the weight etching on the pole. Flex numbers are not considered when figuring out whether a pole is legal or not. If the pole is etched 160, then the label should be 160.

[stormvault]

Yes, but when Gill changed to the best flex system, pre best flex poles didn't fit into that system. So you had a 140 pre best flex turn into a 145 post best flex. Gill also sends a letter with the label explaining that. I was wondering has anyone run into a problem with this in a meet?

[souleman]

Nope! And like I said, if the number on the top of the pole matches the one on the etching it's a legal pole. Kevin Hanson is one of the most noted vault officials here in MN and he and I have talked about the rule quite a bit. In fact, the way it's interpreted in MN is at times ambiguous. As a rule what officials look for is that 3/4" contrasting (tape) mark indicating 6" down from the top of the pole and a clearly marked weight rating on or at the top of the pole. Here, this might clarify it better. I could take a black cat (cat-a-pole) to a meet with the weight written on the white painted on label (the way they used to do it in the 70's) and as long as it had a 3/4" contrasting color piece of tape 6" inches from the top, and it doesn't have any knicks in it (in other words it looks safe and not all beat up)it's a legal pole. Kevin has his 1240 black cat from his high school days and several of the vaulters he has coached have used it in competition. It has the 6 inch marker at the top and the weight clearly marked on the pole. Back to your pole. new flex old flex future flex.....it doesn't matter. If the etching is marked 12 / 160, the officials consider it a 12 foot pole with a top hand grip for high schoolers at 11'6" and nobody over 160 can jump on it, period. Seems a couple of officials are more concerned with a girl or vaulter wearing a bracelette or jewelry than they are about pole markings and ratings. Last year a girl at state was disqualified for leaving her hair rubber band on her wrist after she put on her helmet to jump.......DUH
Hope this helps regarding the poles.

[rainbowgirl28]

Souleman, the high school rules actually leave it up to the discretion of the manufacturer where to place the maximum hand hold label. UCS is the only one still putting it 6" from the top. Altius is 3" down, Gill's new labels and ESSX are right at the top (so you can grip about 1" from the top).

There used to be a rule in the books that if the manufacturer had not placed a max handhold label, you had to put one on there that was 6" from the top. That is no longer in the books and technically any pole w/o a manufacturer's label is not legal.

Hopefully most officials still let kids use poles w/o labels if they had a band 6" down that matched the engraving, but they don't have to.

Also, Gill stopped engraving their poles 3 or 4 years ago. The newest poles with the yellow labels actually have the flex # and serial number printed on the weight label.

[mjaubbs40]

Gill's new labels and ESSX are right at the top (so you can grip about 1" from the top).

There used to be a rule in the books that if the manufacturer had not placed a max handhold label, you had to put one on there that was 6" from the top. That is no longer in the books and technically any pole w/o a manufacturer's label is not legal.

Hopefully most officials still let kids use poles w/o labels if they had a band 6" down that matched the engraving, but they don't have to.
.

I got a yellow replacement label from Gill and the officials at the NY indoor state meet this year didn't want to accept it. They were in the comfort zone of seeing "Maximum grip. Do not grip pole above this line" stickers that are on most Gill poles. I also had a pole with the label they were used to, which seemed to confuse them even more.
The officials kept telling me, "this label doesn't tell you where to hold" like the other pole did.
I basically told the guys that it was a replacement label, that it was fine and to trust me because I knew what I was talking about. I also told them that if they needed, I'd call Bryan Carrel from Gill athletics on my cell phone and him tell them it was ok. The officials dropped it, but seemed miffed. I'm still discouraged that officials do not keep up to date with what is going on with the pole vault, equipment, rules, etc.
Shouldn't there be some clinics or professional development for state meet officials?

[rainbowgirl28]

I'm still discouraged that officials do not keep up to date with what is going on with the pole vault, equipment, rules, etc.
Shouldn't there be some clinics or professional development for state meet officials?

I know my state has clinics like that, but I doubt they cover that type of thing. I don't think Gill ever made an official announcement that they were transitioning to new labels. I anticipate that there will be some problems with officials getting used to the new labels.

This is a good reminder that I should email our USATF officials group and see if they can get the word out about how various weight labels work.

[stormvault]

That is the kind of thing I was talking about. As many of you remember that when Gill changed to there best flex system It changed the weight ratings on there old poles so you had to fax gill with your flex numbers so they could compare them to the new system and they would send you labels for your old poles and you put the labels on the poles. Well because of the recalibration the 150 from 20 years ago was now a 155 so they sent you a 155 label for you 150. Well any official that reads the book knows that the embedded label needs to match the weight label. Gill also sends out a letter stating this with the labels. I was wondering if anyone has run into a problem with this.

I should have stated my question with a little more background information earlier, sorry about that.

As for the officials part of it, they have a tough job, they need to interpret and enforce the rules. When the rule book doesn't say where or what the label looks like or what brand has what it makes it even tougher. On top of that, in the wake of rule changes companies changing equipment and location of labels I feel for the poor volunteer who has been the vault judge at the East Lard Lake Invite for the past 20 years. Or in your case mjaubbs40, your at the state meet and your officials are confused about 2 different labels on the same type of pole.

[cdmilton]

That is the kind of thing I was talking about. As many of you remember that when Gill changed to there best flex system It changed the weight ratings on there old poles so you had to fax gill with your flex numbers so they could compare them to the new system and they would send you labels for your old poles and you put the labels on the poles. Well because of the recalibration the 150 from 20 years ago was now a 155 so they sent you a 155 label for you 150. Well any official that reads the book knows that the embedded label needs to match the weight label. Gill also sends out a letter stating this with the labels. I was wondering if anyone has run into a problem with this.

So are you saying that you have one of these older 150 poles that is engraved as a 150 but with the new best flex system it is really a 155? So you have a pole engraved at 150 but a sticker that says 155?

If this is a case, I can see where you are getting at because the officials at our state and true team meets are mostly clueless about poles. Over the last 5 years I have been trying to train the officials that we see on the pole markings and I believe I have developed a decent working relationship with them so that when it is time to check our poles they know what to look for and it is a lot less painful. Either this is working or they get overwhelmed when I pull out a ton of poles to review and just sign off.

I would bring the letter from Gill about the change along with their phone number so you can offer to call them on the spot if the official has a problem with it.

[Vaultref]

I'll tell you my personal opinion on this subject.

If I can't locate the pole etchings or if the pole etchings don't match the pole rating sticker, I'm not allowing the pole for high school usage. End of discussion with me at a meet.

I'm not even sure if a registered/return receipt letter from pole manufacturer "so-and-so" directly received by me would change my mind at this time.


From time to time, I do see what we call an "old pole" and those are poles made prior to the mandatory pole rating sticker. I'm thinking 1995 or earlier, but I'm not sure anymore. When presented with that age pole, I get very leary about accepting it if it does not have the label. As Becca pointed out, we used to mark those poles with (at the time) a just a tape label with the rating in 1" numberals. I don't do that any more. Either it comes with the sticker or it's no good.

It boils down to liability and I'm not willing to take the risk nor let the vaulter do so at my event.