Re-testing Pole?

[skyshark177]

Does anyone know if there is somewhere in Michigan that can test old poles? I have some old poles that don't have a label on them and want to see what they are.
I think I've heard of a way to do it on your own with some weights, but don't know how.

[lonestar]

Take your poles down to Champaign, Illinois to the Gill Factory. They´ll flex and re-label them for you (Gill brand poles only). Contact Decamouse or PVJunkie on this site for details.

[Bruce Caldwell]

Take your poles down to Champaign, Illinois to the Gill Factory. They´ll flex and re-label them for you (Gill brand poles only). Contact Decamouse or PVJunkie on this site for details.

LOOk for engraved numbers on the pole, If the pole is older than 1996 the coach can place a 1" ring on the pole and magic marker in 3/4" high numbers of the rating that is engraved on the pole. AS LONG AS HIS NAME AND TITLE ARE ALSO ON THE RING.
if you do not have an engraved number or it is newer than 1996 you have to take it to the original manufacturer.
SEE post below for correction and disclaimer to these statements
Check with your state assoc. first before you go to the meet or use a pole in practice.

[Decamouse]

1996 Rule Book States - "Coaches may mark poles manufactured prior to 1995 by placing the bottom on one-inch vinyl tape, indicating the top hand hold band, six inches from the top of the pole. The weight marking shall be indicated by one-inch numerals with a label or with permanent marking pen of a color that contrasts to the pole color."

Please Note: This is no longer in the Rules and has not been for a few years - so your state might not allow the coach to mark!!!

Also - there is nothing in the rules that requires and engraved number - this has been discussed with the NFHS.

[Bruce Caldwell]

1996 Rule Book States - "Coaches may mark poles manufactured prior to 1995 by placing the bottom on one-inch vinyl tape, indicating the top hand hold band, six inches from the top of the pole. The weight marking shall be indicated by one-inch numerals with a label or with permanent marking pen of a color that contrasts to the pole color."

Please Note: This is no longer in the Rules and has not been for a few years - so your state might not allow the coach to mark!!!

Also - there is nothing in the rules that requires and engraved number - this has been discussed with the NFHS.

I agree that a manufacturer is not required to engrave their poles however up until just last year they all did.
I believe that one manufacturer has now gone to a bar code that gives them in house verification and the outside public has to contact them for any verification if the ring label is missing, cut off, or scratched beyond reconition.
It is my opinion that not engraving a vaulting pole could in time require in house verification and can reduce the re-use value of that product.
Yes you are correct about the date, IT did read 1995 not 1996 And I stand corrected

However but if the rule was once in place those poles should still valid poles my opinion.
And yes you may need to check with your state. to make sure. It really should be ok unless one is promoting re-certification or new sales!!!
As long as the engraved weight rating by the manufacturer is the same as the 1" ring placed on the pole by the coach. And could be used as the rule once allowed them only if the pole was engraved and is still legible.
I do not see any rule in the rule book that would disallow those poles today as you could grandfather to the old rule.
BUT I agree you will need to check with your state Assoc. to see if it is still allowed before you go to the meet!! IT is a very gray area!
IT is a gray area but what reason would one not allow a pole that has an engraved weight rating by the manufacturer, but the manufacture’s ring was missing? I only see one reason to force the coach and school to go and buy a new pole!!!
There is no safety concern, there is no legal problem labeling a pole exactly what the manufacturer says it is,
Allowing re-certification can only lead to potential cheating and misplaced legal liability on the re-certifier, the very thing that the rule was in place to stop in the first place!

To not be able to use a pole that once under a rule in 1995 was legal would be a disaster as you would have to take your pole to the manufactuer to be re-certified or have to buy a new pole. Yet the pole is still safe as the weight rating is engraved on the pole?

I recognized that one manufacture wants this re-certification and so does the ASTM, but we believe it to be the end of the pole vault event and be very costly to the schools if allowed to be passed..
To have a re-certification of vaulting poles it will make all the used poles obsolete and the coach will be forced to buy new poles or have to take the used poles to a certified place to get them re-certified. At the ASTM meeting various reasons for this were presented;

1. To standardize the model weight numbers of various brand poles.
MY findings and Opinion are; Today this is immaterial as all brand are inline with each other give or take 3-4 lbs.

2. A legal means for control and monitor of the manufacturers.
MY Opinion; Those who do not understand the process are wanting to control, I also believe it will provide a court guidelines to create more lawsuits against schools, coaches, and manufacturers
3. One person stated that rule changes promote more sales?
My Opinion and Findings are; If you educate the coach and the athlete , they jump higher and safer, doing so promotes the sale of needed stiffer poles and that is the proper way to increase sales of a product by increased success. not forced absolution of a product!!.

Education is the only way to promote sales
see www.essxsport.com click on pole calculator
see the new UCS catalog it has education in the sales tool itself
got to
www.polevaulteducation.org
89

[Decamouse]

This was a big issue in PA this year and also with the NFHS - engravings in poles have been altered in the past as well as poles mis-labled in the field - Yes Bruce - Gill does have a bar code and numeric number for model number and serial number embedded under the glass in the handle area of the pole - since the model number will give you the weight - it is not required to call Gill unless you want to know the flex number - assuming someone has removed the label at the top (which is very difficult to do - will not happen by accident). The bar coding is for in house use at Gill with the scanners. Anyone who has taken the tour would understand why. If a state allows something other than the manufacturer's weight label and allows the Grandfather Rule - the six inch down criteria would apply - not sure if 3/4 or 1" numbers?

Not sure what manufacturer wants to re-cert. but as Gill Engineering and R&D Manager - we only do it up request - do not want to do it as routine -

As far as ASTM - I must have missed something since ASTM does not require nor have an approved draft that calls for re-certification!! Just because it is brought up in a meeting for discussion does not mean it will every go to the next level of the ASTM approval process. Or is that another urban legend

The reason for the initial post was to point out the six inch down requirement that was not mentioned and the correct year

Gray area - in CA this year I believe they had a pole or two show up with a different manufacturer's weight labels on them -

Since I also sat in the same ASTM Meeting at the Trials - In my opinion I did not develop the same feel that you did about some of these items - in fact UCS and Gill agreed on many of the points. Since there where only 3 manufacturer's there!

[Bruce Caldwell]

FUNNY how 2 people lookout the same window & see two entirley differrent things?

If a state allows something other than the manufacturer's weight label and allows the Grandfather Rule - the six inch down criteria would apply - not sure if 3/4 or 1" numbers?

COMMENT ESSX I AGREE

As far as ASTM - I must have missed something since ASTM does not require nor have an approved draft that calls for re-certification!! Just because it is brought up in a meeting for discussion does not mean it will every go to the next level of the ASTM approval process. Or is that another urban legend.

COMMENT ESSX THere is a motion on the floor for two members to present the manufactuers with a plan and reason for a standarization of brand model and weight numbers in relationship to flex numbers! If this goes any further it could result in old poles being illegal and/or re-certified!

The reason for the initial post was to point out the six inch down requirement that was not mentioned and the correct year

Gray area - in CA this year I believe they had a pole or two show up with a different manufacturer's weight labels on them -

COMMENT ESSX YES TO THE 6 " down label you ar ecorrect to add this !!
THat should not be unless the label was on their at the same weight rating as the engraved portion. Otherwise to change the rating to a differrent weight rating would be a displacment of liability to the changer and not the original manufactuer

Since I also sat in the same ASTM Meeting at the Trials - In my opinion I did not develop the same feel that you did about some of these items - in fact UCS and Gill agreed on many of the points. Since there where only 3 manufacturer's there!

COMMENT ESSX I sat next to Gill and you and did not hear of any points agreed mutually by UCS and GILL????
In fact when it was voted on both Steve Chapell and myself voted against the motion!!!! SO that IS ONE THAT YOU AND UCS DID NOT AGREE ON!

[rainbowgirl28]

(which is very difficult to do - will not happen by accident).

It's not THAT hard to do. I am not talking about the weight rating sticker but the one at which replaced the engraved numbers. Those rubber tops come off in my tube right away, and pulling them in and out of the tube starts to scratch off the sticker. Mine are nowhere near coming off, but I would imagine in a year or two they'll be pretty worthless.

[Decamouse]

Ya but the new one we just started using this year is pretty tough - Bruce - I was sitting next to David - I know what was said - ask VaultMD he sat next to me

[skyshark177]

Does anyone have the instructions on using a 50 pound wieght hanging in the middle of the pole to test it?

[Bruce Caldwell]

Something to use as a rule of thumb is 12" from each side and a 50 lb weight in the middle.

Asking for poles by a specific flex number is usually an up charge of $25.00 per pole.

We have found that after moving our flex machine now 6 times, we had to use test sample poles to calibrate it.
So I fell that one will get a variety of numbers from your own that will not match exactly to the manufacturer.

However this practice will give you your own flex system and if you check all poles you will with in your own system have a way to move from one pole to another efficiently.