If you do what you've always done...

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PV2020
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If you do what you've always done...

Unread postby PV2020 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:22 am

One of my favorite quotes:

"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten"

I see people on here all the time that preach a certain technique and talk about how if anyone was serious about becoming an elite or jumping as high as Bubka they would copy the Petrov model. It is as if coaches and athletes are just dumb for not doing things like Bubka and anything else is working backwards.

However there was a point where Bubka was not the world record holder. Did people look at him and Petrov like they were idiots for trying a technique that was different than the current world record? I do not think so, but I was not there, and I have a feeling if they did Petrov would not have cared and would have still done what he felt was best.

The point I am getting to is that the Petrov model is really good, it works great, Bubka jumped really high. But Petrov has coached a lot of other men since Bubka and none have come close to being as dominate as him. So you can say it was his technique and not his athletic ability that made him the best, and hey, maybe it was! But I do not think any coaches or athletes should be discredited for trying something different.

If you truly believe that the evolution of the vault is over, then why try? If the Petrov model is truly the end of the line and not studying it is just stupidity, then the only way the world record is going to be broken is by someone that is as athletic as Bubka or close to it that performs the same technique better than Bubka, or by having someone perform the same technique as Bubka but is more athletic than Bubka.

I personally do not think Bubka is the most athletic guy to pole vault. I think he is very high on the list, but not the top of it. What made his technique great was that he was able to jump so much higher than everyone else because he perfected his craft. So I will never blame someone that knows they are not anywhere as fast as Bubka that wants to attempt to become a great pole vaulter by trying something different.

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Re: If you do what you've always done...

Unread postby crumion » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:06 am

Totally agree. I love bubka's style of vaulting and personally think it is the best way to vault. There are many different styles of vaulting, and many ways to do it. I think the best way to go if you wanna be good is to just simply follow the world record holders. They had to be doing something right. Bubka destroyed everyone with not only his form, but with holding high on big poles. (210 pole/17ft long) He could do this with his great form. He also was an amazing athlete. Bubka ran an average of 20 mph while vaulting! This is how world record holders are made. Textbook form, big poles, and great athletic ability.

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Re: If you do what you've always done...

Unread postby grandevaulter » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:23 pm

PV2020 wrote:then the only way the world record is going to be broken is by someone that is as athletic as Bubka or close to it that performs the same technique better than Bubka, or by having someone perform the same technique as Bubka but is more athletic than Bubka.


I think you answered the question. However most people are more interested in his technique and his physical attributes. I'd have to point towards his training and his mental toughness.

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Re: If you do what you've always done...

Unread postby VaultPurple » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:32 pm

grandevaulter wrote:
PV2020 wrote:then the only way the world record is going to be broken is by someone that is as athletic as Bubka or close to it that performs the same technique better than Bubka, or by having someone perform the same technique as Bubka but is more athletic than Bubka.


I think you answered the question. However most people are more interested in his technique and his physical attributes. I'd have to point towards his training and his mental toughness.


Or someone close to Bubka's athletic ability performing a new technique that no one has ever thought of..

In the late 19th century the U.S. Patent Office advised President McKinley to close the office because “everything that could be invented has been invented.” Just imagine the world today if Henry Ford would have believed that and just worked on a farm or something instead of building a car.

grandevaulter
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Re: If you do what you've always done...

Unread postby grandevaulter » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:49 pm

I'm not sure that the closing of the governments patent office would have discouraged innovation. It only protects the the guy or gal ( in some cases) or the person that produces the invention and creates government jobs. Our patent office has little control of Asian production and copy write infringement, yet we continue to innovate.

I believe in being open minded. I do believe that necessity is the mother of invention. I also believe in Thomas Edison's quote: 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration. Until a team, club or individual work as hard as Bubka, I don't think it will matter what the technique is.

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Re: If you do what you've always done...

Unread postby Pogo Stick » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:57 am

grandevaulter wrote:I'm not sure that the closing of the governments patent office would have discouraged innovation. It only protects the the guy or gal ( in some cases) or the person that produces the invention and creates government jobs. Our patent office has little control of Asian production and copy write infringement, yet we continue to innovate.

I believe in being open minded. I do believe that necessity is the mother of invention. I also believe in Thomas Edison's quote: 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration. Until a team, club or individual work as hard as Bubka, I don't think it will matter what the technique is.


I cannot resist:
Tesla on Edison: "If he had a needle to find in a haystack he would not stop to reason where it was most likely to be, but would proceed at once, with the feverish diligence of a bee, to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search. ... I was almost a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor."
—New York Times, October 19, 1931 (the day after Edison died)

;)
-- Pogo

"It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory." W. Edwards Deming

grandevaulter
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Re: If you do what you've always done...

Unread postby grandevaulter » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:11 pm

I don't put a lot of stock in the Times, but I'd be willing to compromise on the percentages. :dazed:

I wonder how many pep talks Petrov gave to Bubka. What the ratio of training and technical coaching compared to inspirational speeches? From the reading that I did, it appears he had full days of hard work.

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Re: If you do what you've always done...

Unread postby Pogo Stick » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:01 pm

grandevaulter wrote:I don't put a lot of stock in the Times, but I'd be willing to compromise on the percentages. :dazed:

I wonder how many pep talks Petrov gave to Bubka. What the ratio of training and technical coaching compared to inspirational speeches? From the reading that I did, it appears he had full days of hard work.


Petrov was professional coach paid by government and Bubka was in fact full time professional athlete since early age. Today, except China I don't see any other country where this could be replicable, unless your parents are very rich.
-- Pogo

"It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory." W. Edwards Deming

grandevaulter
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Re: If you do what you've always done...

Unread postby grandevaulter » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:43 pm

Just watched some Holzdeppe youtubes. He seems real fast and bounds down the approach well. Wide grip and sagging wrist that promotes a lower pole carry. (Thats nothing new)


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