Negative Inversion!

[PVDaddy]

I would like to introduce a new concept to Pole Vault Power (I have searched through all the forums and cannot find were this has ever been discussed). A concept that I believe is imperative toward achieving a true vertical fly-away. A concept that will revolutionize and add tremendous height to your fly-away. A concept that I believe is imperative if one is to have chance at breaking a New World Record. I am adding this to Agenda 21. This concept is called............

NEGATIVE INVERSION!

Negative Inversion: When the vaulter is upside down, just prior to flyaway (Pole still bent), with the angle of the spine to the left of (behind) vertical. Becoming extra Inverted (The spine of the body is angled toward the run way)!

Negative inversion was first demonstrated by the Master himself (Who else but Sergey Bubka?) in Paris on July 13, 1985, were he became the first human to clear 6 Meters (Bubkas first 6 Meter vault!) in a competitive event. I don't know at what point this may have been recognized, or if it was the result of Petrovs Plan, I just know that he did it! Why is this (so valuable to the outcome of the vault) not mentioned in Petrov's Model?

When the body of the vaulter rotates to inversion it can only go as far as the top arm (It will be stopped by the top arm). So in order for the body to rotate to true vertical or beyond vertical (negative Inversion) , the top arm must be beyond vertical.
Bubka accomplishes this by keeping his top arm in line with the chord of the pole (The straight line from his top hand to the butt of the pole. The Pole is still bent). Some vaulters accomplish this by moving the pole out away from the thighs.The body must be brought back to the top arm before it moves to vertical and the pole uncoils. It is imperative that the vaulter does not drive the top arm to vertical before the body can get there. So the top arm must stay beyond vertical throughout rock-back. If the top arm stays behind vertical, the line of the spine of the vaulter can come to true vertical, or even better, beyond (Negative Inversion), before the pole uncoils! This is ideal because the center of gravity of the vaulter and the vaulter pole system, extend downward from the poles ideal fulcrum (the top hand), along the chord of the pole, optimally loading it (keeping it bent)! This allows the vaulter time, to add even more kinetic energy into a truly vertical direction of the spine, with the bottom and top arm push toward the pit! The optimally loaded pole returns the vaulter in a Superior position (Truly vertical) producing an insane fly-away!

The majority of elite vaulters do not allow their top arm and body to go beyond vertical (Negative Inversion) and never achieve true vertical, before the pole uncoils. It is impossible for a rowing vaulter, or a tuck and shoot vaulter to achieve this ideal position.

Check out the Master performing Negative Inversion for yourself. Write down these frames. Frames; :20, 1:33 and 1:55
Oh and max out the screen! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyzkuLMJFNg

[AVC Coach]

Although I'm intrigued by the concept, I can't help but wonder how safe it really is. What happens to the vaulter when the pole does not reach vertical position? Wouldn't the pole have to move past vertical to have a chance at making a bar? Just posing a few questions that I hope someone can answer. Not trying to start a fight, just a discussion about the safety of this concept. I know Bubka did it a few times but I believe there was a certain degree of luck that it worked out for him. Just my opinion.

[CoachEric]

The concept is safe. The condition of full inversion with the hips extending up and back away from the bar is a result of elastic arms and a very powerful swing that beats the recoil of the pole. These are good things that aid in rotating the pole toward the back of the pit.

In contrast, if the athlete rows the hands forward, force is directed down the length of the pole, causing it to unbend. This slows pole rotation and breaks the action of the swing. This forward action of the hands makes the vault less safe, not more safe.

[PVDaddy]

Avc Coach said;

Although I'm intrigued by the concept, I can't help but wonder how safe it really is. What happens to the vaulter when the pole does not reach vertical position? Wouldn't the pole have to move past vertical to have a chance at making a bar? Just posing a few questions that I hope someone can answer. Not trying to start a fight, just a discussion about the safety of this concept

Avc coach, are you deliberately trying to be "Negative"?

Ok to be serious. I't as safe as any vault, actually if you have been "fortunate" enough to achieve negative inversion its probably as safe as a vault can be! The reason I say that is because in order to achieve negative inversion all other element of your vault (Run up, Plant, Free take off, CHEST PENETRATION, Swing, Inversion MUST be spot on! Those are all thing that make for Safely landing in the Pit. Also remember that negative inverion occurs BEFORE the Pole uncoils and BEFORE the Pull/ Push phase of the vault takes place. So if anything its More safe, as you have more time to safely perform those task as well! Yes your trajectory is more vertical, if you have been fortunate enought to achieve negative inversion, but you still are moving with the pole toward the pit!

[PVDaddy]

Sorry must correct myself. I meant Push phase only (Not Pull/Push) as the pulling action has already taken place when the vaulter breaks at the hips.

[PVDaddy]

Wow! I must correct myself once again! I'm so excited about this newly discovered concept that I said land in the "Pit" when I meant to say land on the "Pad"!

How Pitiful!

[PVDaddy]

Would lie to mention that my avatar captures Bubka in his maximally inverted (Negative) position. The angle of his spine is leaning toward the runway. His top arm is also extending downward (negative) along the chord of the pole, although at this point it does not appear as much, because the top arm elbow has been slightly flexed out, by the contact of his hips.

[altius]

In fact there is a better example of the position you have chosen for your avatar- and indeed the whole inversion - on the BTB dvd. It may also be worth pointing out that I used examples of what you have termed 'negative inversion' to stress how important generating pole speed - i.e. rotational speed towards the bar- is in the vault - at a Reno presentation a few years ago. I was one of four speakers tasked with discussing the issue of pole speed.

I used the extreme - by normal standards - images of Bubka's position covering the pole and then extending upwards AWAY from the bar to then argue backwards for the importance of the free take off -and its extension the pre jump take off - in initiating pole speed. In essence I argued that unless the athlete does have a continuous chain of energy input - beginning with a free take off - they will be unable to move into such extreme positions. I think it is fair to call them extreme because I have never seen evidence of any other vaulter - even among the Soviet trained athletes - who managed such a position. If Dimitri Markov had managed it he would have jumped 6.20m. Unfortunately other factors prevented that from happening.

IMHO I am not sure we need to think too much about 'negative inversion' because, as the clip I alluded to above clearly shows, it is the inevitable consequence of Petrov's critical concept of "covering the pole", which is apparently being forgotten or ignored - if the film I see of many elite vaulters in the US is anything to go by.

[altius]

Although I'm intrigued by the concept, I can't help but wonder how safe it really is. What happens to the vaulter when the pole does not reach vertical position? Wouldn't the pole have to move past vertical to have a chance at making a bar? Just posing a few questions that I hope someone can answer. Not trying to start a fight, just a discussion about the safety of this concept. I know Bubka did it a few times but I believe there was a certain degree of luck that it worked out for him. Just my opinion.

Morry - as always a good question. As I tried to show in my first post on this topic - getting into this position is certainly dependent on generating sufficient pole speed to KNOW that you will be safe. It will also depend on the ability of the vaulter to get on top of - rather than underneath - the flexed pole. As I implied earlier this in itself seems to present a lot of problems for many athletes - either that or they don't realise how important it is to get on TOP of the straightening pole as fast as possible.

[PVDaddy]

Altius:

In fact there is a better example of the position you have chosen for your avatar- and indeed the whole inversion - on the BTB dvd

Who's Vault? What Vault? Please do indeed post it (or at least a link) here for for us Altius!!!!!!!

I created the avatar by performing a print screen on Bubkas first 6 Meter vault.

The run up, free take of and swing was amazing and a thing of beauty on that vault! This further illustrates the points that I have been trying to make, right along, that it is impossible to achieve negative inversion unless all those continuous chain events leading up to it are spot on! All the more reasons to alway attempt to achieve negative inversion, in all your vaults, besides the fact that it puts you in a Superior position for fly-away! I am so convinced about this that I am going to take it a step forward and claim that it should/must become the new standard on what constitutes a great vault! I believe it is impossble for a rowing or tuck and shoot vaulter or a M640 (Pull immediately after the foot leave the groung) vaulter to achieve this position. If so please show me some examples in a video like I have shown you? Agapit, Altius or anyone please do! Any comments on these subjects anyone?

Altius:

It may also be worth pointing out that I used examples of what you have termed 'negative inversion' to stress how important generating pole speed - i.e. rotational speed towards the bar- is in the vault - at a Reno presentation a few years ago. I was one of four speakers tasked with discussing the issue of pole speed.

So you talked about pole speed? I would suggest that achieving negative has more to do with the speed of rotation of the vaulter do to Free take off, GREAT PENETRATION INTO ELASTICITY, PERFECT TIMING OF OF PULL ( Both arms but, Emphasis on the top arm pull as one breaks at the hips into rock back) and allowing the body to get all the way to the stop (the top arm), then it does with the speed of pole rotation! Although I will agree all those thing effect the speed of pole rotation.


Consider this? How is it possible to perform a strong downward push to the pit with first the bottom and then the top hand and PUSH yourself into a truly vertical position, before the pole uncoils, UNLESS you are in a beyond vertical (I use the term negative because in mathematics, to the left of tangent, is concidered a negative direction) to begin with? Is there an advantage to bar clearance with a vertical fly-away? Does it not take valuable time to bottom and then top arm push? Is not the pole uncoiling during this time? Does it not make sense to perform both those pushing actions before the pole uncoils at true vertical? Does this position (negative) help keep the pole loaded more and longer, and therefore give the vaulter a CHANCE to achieve a vertical fly-way?

Altius, please reference were you, or anyone on here has once referred to the importance of achieving this position (negative inversion) and its impact on pole bend, bottom push, top push, true vertical, and maximizing flyaway height? If you have mentioned all this at a conference please include a link? I would love to here it~ Perhaps you don't believe it is a truly a Superior position or you have never contemplated the importance of that position?

If on the other hand you do believe it is a truley superior position, please just come out and say it! The pole vault world desperately needs good direction from it leaders!

I personally believe that it is as important as a Free take off and is THE INDICATOR of the perfect chain!

[PVDaddy]

I would like to simplify this concept even further. In order to do this, one must be willing to buy into what are now much agreed upon concepts. Concept 1: The pole and the vaulter (the vaulter pole system) must continue to move toward the crossbar for a good and safe vault. This is necessary in order to go over the bar and to land on the pad. So in order to land on the pad, the vaulters inertia is continiously sending them in that horizontal direction, whether negatively inverted or with the line of the spine flagged out toward the crossbar. Agreed? Concept 2: In order to achieve maximum bar clearance, the vaulters spine must be shot truly vertical toward the sky and not flagged out toward the crossbar. Agreed? Concept 3: While in inversion and through fly-away, the vaulters entire body is continuing to tip forward (lean with feet forward on top) toward the crossbar Agreed?

If you agree with the above concepts, how is it possible to achieve a true vertical fly-away, unless you the begin the push phase while the pole is still bent and the body is negatively inverted? If you begin the push phase with the spine only vertical or less, (remember the spine is continuing to tip forward feet first) by the time you release the pole, you are already flagged out toward the crossbar!

[PVDaddy]

I said to Altius:

If you have mentioned all this at a conference please include a link? I would love to here it~ Perhaps you don't believe it is a truly a Superior position or you have never contemplated the importance of that position?

In saying this, I am not trying to say you have never contemplated the importance of that position (or that you are a dumb Bunny because you are far fro that!). I'm asking you with respect of your educated opinion, whether or not you have? I have never heard anyone on here but myself discuss it? You said that that position was inevitable? Why was it inevitable? What does that mean? Do you believe it was intentional or a mistake? Do you feel that it helped or hurt his vault and why? Do you feel it is a Superior or Inferior Position and why? We all seem to agree that he he did it! We all know he set a new world record on that day?