Biomechanics Report WC Berlin 2009 Pole Vault

[Pogo Stick]

Link: http://www.iaaf.org/development/research/index.html
It has some interesting numbers for discussion. It also contains data from IAAF World Final 2007 in Stuttgart.
- Men's take-off data don't looks too accurate - how in the world (Texas included ) is possible that Dossevi, Ecker and Otto take off point is 3.60m (11'10") - almost 2ft under?
- Also, Lavillenie take off was at 4.65m (15'3") - he was gripping 5.20m (17ft) or he was 1ft out or it's a mistake.
- S. Hooker with hamstring injury was still one of the fastest.
- Isinbaeva was missing from both competition (injury 2007, NH 2009), but in Berlin his run-up velocity in the qualification was 8.28 m/s.
- Both Polnova and Feofanova have odd number of steps - 17.
- Guys with 20 steps run (Yurchenko, Dossevi and Lavillenie) were some of the fastest. Is it time for more elite vaulters to switch to 20 steps? DJ has been talking about advantages of longer run some time (years) ago...
- There is no significant differences in speed for womens with 16, 17 and 18 steps run.

[boisky]

renaud had never gripped 5.20m. just 5.10 max on 14.6 (i know). because their pole measure 5.10m.

[achtungpv]

- Men's take-off data don't looks too accurate - how in the world (Texas included ) is possible that Dossevi, Ecker and Otto take off point is 3.60m (11'10") - almost 2ft under?

Check out Ecker's 6m vault from years ago...he's at least 1 1/2 feet under there.

[wtfisup]

I believe the reports on Dossevi’s take off. I’ve jumped against him 3 times this season and yeah he’s “under” but with his style and big left arm he makes it work. He’s been jumping on 15’7” poles and capping them. Saw him cruise over 5.60m on those poles and make good attempts at 5.70. I don’t know what poles he was on during WC but I’m sure they’re in the ballpark. He’s fast and hits the box hard.

[rainbowgirl28]

He’s been jumping on 15’7” poles and capping them. Saw him cruise over 5.60m on those poles and make good attempts at 5.70.

Holy cow...

[achtungpv]

...yeah he’s “under” but with his style and big left arm he makes it work. He’s been jumping on 15’7” poles and capping them.

Being under and a big left arm are probably big contributors to him only gripping 15'7".

[dj]

good morning,

how some of the data was collected may tell us more... but you would think the data collection set up would be standard and accurate.

footage of the jumps would tell us if they were that much under... that is a little much, although LJ had some extremes and pulled off the jump..

i'm going to try and get some detailed data..


Lavillenie is bringing it.. with as high and “out” of a plant as he can get.. which gives him a tremendous amount of force to “bend” the pole into a shorter radius… that is then moved to vertical by his “swing” force.. he drops the legs after takeoff (metronome effect) and swings very fast to vertical around his top grip .. attempting to “shoot” as high as possible above his grip as the pole reaches it’s maximum length.

This is a “model” Bubka..esk jump.. not by “picture” but by the physics.

“Lavillenie is bringing it.. with as high and “out” of a plant as he can get”

This is the one element that sets him apart from most other vaulters. When we go back to this element (longer faster approach run.. women included) we will have new records and be vaulting correctly.


dj

[timmac-pv]

Dj,

I'm not sure if you know what your talking about! If you think Lavillenie action is Bubka esk then you are defining most American vaulters techniques as being Bubka like. Lavillenie is a classic tuck and shoot vaulter, nothing like bubka's.

One of the big challenges for Lavillenie is to learn how to move his pole through the vault as he lacks penetration into the pit. Lavillenie jumps high but on many occasions falls on the bar which is a classic tuck and shoot problem due to the way the pole bends for a tuck and shoot vaulter, whereas the "Bubka" style concentrates on rolling the pole through the jump equating to a bend higher in the pole (which if performed right) provides a release at the top propelling the vaulter with height and force into the pit. I prefer to watch tarasov when it comes to this technique as he was less erratic at the top of the jump compared to bubka who was very messy.

Lavillenie dropping his knee also gives direct effect to him stalling, instead of 'rolling' through the jump. The knee lift provides better momentum but also positions the body at take off to take full advantage of the swing which obviously happens next.

Also Lavillenie dosent swing, he picks up, a leg swing if performed right starts just after take off and doesn't stop until the vaulter is in position to release. If you watch tarasov in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1EwqxKPxOI his swing continues all the way, then watch Lavillenie he starts to swing at the bottom but then picks up.

All this said, Lavillenie is a great athlete who understands his technique very well, his positives such as speed, explosive take off and body awareness are the attributes which allow him to vault so high using the tuck and shoot method.

So DJ, when you say (This is a “model” Bubka..esk jump.. not by “picture” but by the physics.) how can anyone believe you when you don't understand the physics at all.


timpv

[boisky]

damiel dossevi jumps on a 5.10m flex 14.6 (i know).he jumped often with 5m grip.
when he was young(16 years) i saw him to put one step in the flex.....with a little pole just for fun

[dj]

good morning

looks like we are talking different "physics".. I'm talking about..
distance/time ..action/reaction...application of force...rotation...trajectory on a shortening and lengthening pendulum arm.

Your right I should have left out the comparison from a physics stand point, since we are looking at a picture…

But it is an extremely good jump from a “physics/application of force” stand point…

The point I was hoping to make was we seem to “get into” the “picture” telling the story and not the forces.. and of course we use the “picture” of the world record holder as our model.. like the bumble bee can’t fly syndrome the picture can “lie” but the physics and end result tells the truth. Earl Bell may have never set the world record if the “critiques” had of convinced Guy Kochel that the “dropped knee” was going to keep him from being any good.

And I wasn’t trying to defend or compare to “American” technique..

What I “see” is pure Lavillenie and jumping to the “physics” of the event.. and I see no reason he can’t jump higher under the right conditions, right grip, pole and standard settings and should not be criticized if he “looks” like he can’t fly.

Again I apologize for using a named vaulter as a comparison.

He is doing well on his own and vaulting to physics..

dj

[dj]

PSS..

am i a fan of a double leg swing? no and don't teach it...

am i a fan of an extreme Tuck and Shoot" no and don't teach it..

do i think Lavillenie could jump higher and clear the bar with the exact same "physics" of this jump?

absolutely... lower the grip 2" and he would jump 10 cm higher... with the same jump and penetrate enough to clear the bar.

dj

[boisky]

in pole vault you can't teach the double swing .i think the double swing is unforced technique and a technical deficiency . but the double swing can't be help to move the pole .... but to the front but not to the top!!!!