The Stretch Whip Drills

[altius]

"I would like to see some video of your best kids so I can see if I'm waisting my time with this whole swing thing. Could you post some?"

I may be wrong but that request seems a little tongue in cheek to me.

However old son that is not going to happen - I asked Charlie to post film of athletes who represent his methods some time ago - but I am still waiting. I suspect we both will be waiting for a long while - till hell freezes over perhaps??? You will get a continually repeated list of ???? state champions etc etc but I am absolutely certain you will never see film of them on PVP!

[master]

I always thought that "bubkas" were the "hip thrust" to the pole and the "shoulder drop" to vertical. This topic bubkas by Bubka from April 2005 was for discussing this motion. There's a link to a video segment that's fun to watch. (When run in a loop you can really see how much of a physical speciman Bubka was )

- master

[charlie]

I have alot of sympathy for ALTIUS- As I have said before that I don,t have to sell cds or books, I just coach WINNERS. I also think ALTIUS's book and cd is great, But he seems to question any body who is successful. I feel sorry for his insecurity!!!

[kcvault]

Let me clarify for everybody why I don't teach SWING. If you run properly, with lift in your run, you will automatically swing to the l ,or flat back position

I agree that a lot of this will happen naturally with the proper run and take off but only if that is already what your body is trained to do. You may not teach the swing but at the same time it would be impossible to deny the existence of the swing. I also believe along with a good run and take off it is also necessary to drive into the box with your top arm in order to swing properly. Since I have spent my whole life tucking no matter how good my run and take off is I have to think to do a down swing or I will tuck. I believe a lot of beginners would also run into this same problem. Though I believe a lot can be fixed by taking off properly and teaching the athlete to feel an elastic stretch allowing them to drive into the box with there top hand.

---Kasey

[KirkB]

In Charlie's world ...

If you run properly, with lift in your run, you will automaticly swing to the l ,or flat back position.

KC points out that ...

I believe a lot can be fixed by taking off properly and teaching the athlete to feel an elastic stretch allowing them to drive into the box with there top hand.

So while I agree with KC, if I was to follow Charlie's advice, I would just automagically swing ... just by a good plant, nothing more. I hope Charlie can at least agree with KC that a good, high, aggressive plant is necessary.

But to say that that's ALL you need? And then you just PULL your trail leg in from the L or flat-back position? Where's the JUMP? Where's the STRETCH? Where's the SWING?

Charlie, your ideas ... altho I know you strongly believe in them ... are COMPLETELY off the topic of this thread. If you don't think that good PV technique includes a SWING, then you're on the wrong thread. This thread is about how to do the Stretch Whip Drill ... which is fundamental to learning HOW TO SWING!

And while it MIGHT be entertaining to watch you and Altius "go at it", I don't want that pissing contest to happen on my thread. Charlie, if you believe so strongly in your coaching methods, please create your own thread, and explain them ... once and for all ... with or without video.

'Nuff said.

Back to serious, on-topic stuff ... I'll read the link that Master quoted, and comment on that.

Kirk

[altius]

If anyone puts forwards the performances of their athletes to justify their methods, especially with an important element of training like this one, then they should be prepared to back it up with a little more than the claim I COACH WINNERS!

As I pointed out at the end of C 28 of BTB2 (thanks Charlie for the chance to advertise!!) "Then if their athletes are successful in an environment where local success is more significant than comparisons with the rest of the world, coaches may well be tempted to feel that they have little more to learn. Therein lies the trap that many of us have fallen into at some time or other." I suspect this is the case here.

Just a thought - once a topic goes up on PVP does it remain the "property" of the original poster??? Are you taking over from Becca, or just getting little too precious KB?

[KirkB]

I always thought that "bubkas" were the "hip thrust" to the pole and the "shoulder drop" to vertical. This topic bubkas by Bubka from April 2005 was for discussing this motion. There's a link to a video segment that's fun to watch.

Yes, Master, that was my understanding of the purpose for the "Bubka Drill" too. A "Swinging Bubka" is similar, except with a swing at the bottom (not a very good swing, but a swing nonetheless). Clearly (clear to me, at least), the "Bubka" was not intended to teach the DOWNSWING. In addition to the 3 forms of Bubkas on PVP's Media page, here's another vid that demonstrates a "Swinging Bubka" ... http://www.worldsportsvideos.com/video/9GXtp78AMWU/Sliva-Swing-to-Bubka.html. Again, too much emphasis on the upswing/extension part of the vault, and not enough emphasis on the downswing.

To try to answer your question, Master, I think you're correct in identifying the vault part that the "Bubka Drill" is purposed for. And with the caveats that I've already mentioned in this thread, I think it's OK for this purpose. But the "Shoot-to-a-handstand Drill" also simulates the "extension" vault part ... but without the caveats.

If anyone is wondering what a "Shoot-to-a-Handstand" is, here's a thread where we talked about it ... http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=18390&p=131182. The vid on this thread doesn't show the "kip cast" part of the drill that I recommend for most mere mortals, but it does show what a super-athlete (Christian Tamminga) can do from a near dead-hang. If anyone's interested, I can try to dig up a vid of a "kip cast hip-circle shoot-to-a-handstand" ... which is relatively easy to do for an intermediate vaulter ... once you get the hang of it. Even for a beginning vaulter, there's various excercises that you can do to lead up to it ... I seem to recall a vid of Jesse Gallaher coaching a young vaulter how to do it.

Kirk

[KirkB]

... Are you taking over from Becca, or just getting little too precious KB?

I would like SOME continuity on threads that I personally start, so perhaps I'm guilty as charged ... if that's what you mean by "precious".

I try to play by the rules, and abide by whatever the moderators of this forum allow, but I'm pretty sure that pissing contests are verbotin.

Kirk

[powerplant42]

I think Charlie's thinking that since the vault is a continuous chain, you can somehow teach more as a whole rather than break it down, particularly from take-off to inversion.

Maybe I'll start coaching: Run, then take off! NO PLANT!

There is a swing. Sorry...

Sorry for the break from the topic KB.

I'm not a fan of the bubka drill, especially swinging bubkas on the bar... It simply doesn't have technical value. It's good for inversion strength and maybe some coordination, but more efficient would be a simple deadlift: you get all the same things done and you don't get as red in the face!

[kcvault]

http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=18390&p=131182

I am starting to get a little confused with the drills isnt this just a swing to bubka to a hand stand. Before the handstand the only difference I see between what christine is doing and what he is doing in this video is the mixed grip. I had the terminology a little confused already because I have always called what you call bubkas static bubkas, and called swinging bubkas bubkas. I however think swinging bubkas also simulate the down swing. When doing a swinging bubka I was always told to pike a little as I swing back to set me up for the tap swing or down swing on the bottom of the bubka. You can see that christine does exactly what I am saying. I was not able to do a bubka until jan tought me how to swing properly on the bar in order to get inverted, to do a swinging bubka properly the focus has to be on the tap swing, and personally I think it is exelent swinging drill. I also think kip cast to free hip circle is a exelent swinging drill but hard to do if you do not have a proper high bar and straps. That being said after learning to swing properly stacic bubkas or for your terminology bubkas were the only thing that gave me the strength to stay inverted. It actually took me two months of my freshmen year in college to have the strenth to do one static bubka.

---Kasey

[altius]

KB - you are doing a great job - without your contribution pvp would be moribund at the present time -although we have had some fun in the past if you care to look!!

That said one cannot ever allow outrageous ideas and claims to go unchallenged. This event has suffered far too long from myths and misunderstandings that have gone -and in many situations still do go - unchallenged. At times I wonder if some folk who coach this event have ever heard of Petrov, Parnov, Bubka and Isinbayeva, Just carry on the good work of enlightening the masses.

[KirkB]

... I'm not a fan of the bubka drill ... more efficient would be a simple deadlift ...

Or CLEANS! [/quote]

KB - you are doing a great job ...

Gee, thanks!

Kirk