Fred

[powerplant42]

I knew I'd do something like that...

[powerplant42]

Back to the story (maybe I should make a movie?)... Anyway, we left off with Fred getting ready to vault during practice, and he's already taken about 15 full run vaults. Coach Smith was going to actually do his job and coach, as he stands almost on top of the box... here we go.

"OK Freddy boy, grip it and rip it!" "Will do, Coach!" Fred says as he gets ready... and he grips up from where he was before, about 3 inches on that 13' 130, leaving 2 more inches to the weight label. Fred thinks to himself, "I'll just have to run a little faster and bend the pole a little more so that I can still get into the pit..." Smith tells Fred to wait up for a second as he puts a bungy up at around 13', for Fred to shoot for. "I want you to think about that inversion in order to get up to this bungy, Fred!" "OK Coach!" Fred shouts back. (Wow, I feel like a novelist...) Fred gives Ted and Ed a glance to stop dueling with the 140 Pacer and the 12' Spirit, and steps back a few inches to compensate for his anticipated increase in speed. (I am not going to go into Fred's particular technical flaws in this post. That's for another time, perhaps I'll talk about them as Fred travels to his first meet of the season.) Fred starts his run, and jumps... He stalls out big and almost hits Coach Smith on his way into the box. "WOAH there Fred! What happened?" "I don't know coach, I just couldn't drive enough I guess..." "OK, well let's raise your grip up to the label then, shall we? You'll get a bigger bend, that should make it easier for you to get into the pit safely." "OK coach... I'm a little freaked out by that distance from the box though..." "I'll give you a tap then. Let's go..." Fred waits around, getting ready for his next jump. This time, Smith gives Fred a big ol' tap. He barely gets in, but he does get in. "Didn't that feel better?" "Yeah, I guess..." "Keep swinging next time, don't quit on it. I'll give you another tap." The same thing happens the next time. They resolve to work on it the next day.

[powerplant42]

A few weeks pass, and Fred's first meet comes. It's cold... Fred tells Jed to grab all the poles and put them into the bus aisle, and to tell people not to walk on them if they could help it. People do, but Jed doesn't care that much... he's too excited about his first meet! When the Hogs arrive at Forksbury High School, Coach Smith says, "OK you guys it's pretty cold out there, make sure you jog at least two laps and take a bunch of warm up jumps. OH! And don't forget to warm up the poles before you jump on them." A consensual "OK coach" was heard. Fred goes and puts the poles over by the pit and starts jogging. He finishes his 800m jog, and starts to stretch with his team (mostly static stretches). Then he heads on over to the snack stand to buy a hot dog and a cup of noodles, just to keep himself warm. Fred sits around eating until an official lets everyone begin jumping. Fred starts out with a runback, just like everyone else at the competition. Red reminds them they have to warm up the poles, so all the Hogs vaulters take their poles over to the fence on the side of the track, and begin force bending them, on person cranking down on the top while another person pushes up on the middle. After all that, Fred heads back to take a couple of warm up jumps. At a small meet like this, Fred knew he could take all the jumps he wants before the competition begins. So he does around 20 short run vaults, just to get loose. Then come the run throughs... you know, full vaults, just to check that his run is good. He tampers with it each time, way forward, way back, a little more, now less, and on his 7th run through he finally hits an 'on' take-off. Fred then scurries back off to the side of the runway to stay warm, because the competition is about to begin. Fred checks in with the official on his way, and tells him he'll come in at opening height, 8 feet. Fred sits down and starts stretching, nice, long, hamstring stretches on the ground, making sure to get his hands all the way around his feet. Fred waits around, still stretching, watching the competition. All of a sudden, he hears his name called! "Am I up now?" He thinks to himself. "Oh no, I guess I'm just on deck." Fred goes back to his sitting and stretching. THEN he's SURE his name is called to vault. He grabs his pole and gets ready to jump, doing half a pole run. "You're on the clock!" shouts the official. Fred is pumped, and steps up to his tape. Fred closes his eyes and tries to visualize his entire jump... He gets through it, but he'd never been that good at picturing things like that in his head. "Here we go... first jump of the season, Fred... make it a good one..." he mutters to himself, as he raises his pole.

I'm saving Fred's vault for the next post, sorry!

[Split]

A few weeks pass, and Fred's first meet comes. It's cold... Fred tells Jed to grab all the poles and put them into the bus aisle, and to tell people not to walk on them if they could help it. People do, but Jed doesn't care that much... he's too excited about his first meet! When the Hogs arrive at Forksbury High School, Coach Smith says, "OK you guys it's pretty cold out there, make sure you jog at least two laps and take a bunch of warm up jumps. OH! And don't forget to warm up the poles before you jump on them." A consensual "OK coach" was heard. Fred goes and puts the poles over by the pit and starts jogging. He finishes his 800m jog, and starts to stretch with his team (mostly static stretches). Then he heads on over to the snack stand to buy a hot dog and a cup of noodles, just to keep himself warm. Fred sits around eating until an official lets everyone begin jumping. Fred starts out with a runback, just like everyone else at the competition. Red reminds them they have to warm up the poles, so all the Hogs vaulters take their poles over to the fence on the side of the track, and begin force bending them, on person cranking down on the top while another person pushes up on the middle. After all that, Fred heads back to take a couple of warm up jumps. At a small meet like this, Fred knew he could take all the jumps he wants before the competition begins. So he does around 20 short run vaults, just to get loose. Then come the run throughs... you know, full vaults, just to check that his run is good. He tampers with it each time, way forward, way back, a little more, now less, and on his 7th run through he finally hits an 'on' take-off. Fred then scurries back off to the side of the runway to stay warm, because the competition is about to begin. Fred checks in with the official on his way, and tells him he'll come in at opening height, 8 feet. Fred sits down and starts stretching, nice, long, hamstring stretches on the ground, making sure to get his hands all the way around his feet. Fred waits around, still stretching, watching the competition. All of a sudden, he hears his name called! "Am I up now?" He thinks to himself. "Oh no, I guess I'm just on deck." Fred goes back to his sitting and stretching. THEN he's SURE his name is called to vault. He grabs his pole and gets ready to jump, doing half a pole run. "You're on the clock!" shouts the official. Fred is pumped, and steps up to his tape. Fred closes his eyes and tries to visualize his entire jump... He gets through it, but he'd never been that good at picturing things like that in his head. "Here we go... first jump of the season, Fred... make it a good one..." he mutters to himself, as he raises his pole.

I'm saving Fred's vault for the next post, sorry!

Cmon PP!

[powerplant42]

Here's it is, Split!

(Fred is holding about 4 inches down on the 13' 130.)

Fred uses a wide grip, a little more than the length of his hand to the shoulder on the same side. (Coach Smith said that this would give him an edge on the competition, because he could control the pole better during his approach and plant.) Fred takes a big hop/skip/whatever you want to call it to start off his run. He has a very under, heavy, closed stirde, but he is still quite fast, so he never really bothered to work on it. He pumps the pole as he runs, because he was told by a number of people that he should use his arms regardless of the pole would make him go faster. His pole carry is around 40 degrees as he begins. His planting action is late and way out to the side. He slows down as a result... (Everybody always told him that he did this, but whenever he tried to speed up more at the end of his run, he got rejected, so he just dismissed it.) Fred takes off around 3 inches under. He smashes his left arm into the pole to ensure a big bend, and doesn't fully finish his take-off, because he's focussed on inverting right away so that he can shoot his hips UP. He drops his once-good drive-knee during his swing. (He was aware that he did this, but couldn't really seem to fix it, no matter how hard he tried.) As a result, he pulls himself up on the pole, curls into a V-ish ball, and kicks out at the space right above the bar. He gives the pole a hard push-off.............An easy clearance for Fred at 8'.

[powerplant42]

I am going to pause the story for some discussion now...

Let's realize that it is almost never the athlete's fault. Fred, like most any newcomer (in anything), let his mind be quite open. He realized he knew nothing about pole vaulting, so he let the authoritative figures IN CLOSE PROXIMITY shape his idea of desirable technique and the methods of attaining it. He is a product of his society. NOW... here is an interesting question... Would Fred have been better off without Coach Smith? Why or why not?

[KirkB]

There's at least 4 types of PV coaches ...

1. Coaches that insist on you doing everything their way - and their way is usually good.
2. Coaches that insist on you doing everything their way - and their way is sometime bad.
3. Coaches that collaborate with you on how to customize your training and your technique - and often have good ideas of their own to suggest.
4. Coaches that collaborate with you on how to customize your training and your technique - and often suggest bad ideas.

Which type of coach is Coach Smith?

Which type of coach do you have?

Which type of coach do you prefer?

Is there a blend of these coaching styles that might suit you best?

PP, sorry if I'm not hitting your question dead-on, but this is where I think you might be heading.

BTW PP, are you Fred?

Kirk

[powerplant42]

I am actually NOT Fred. Yeah, bits and pieces are me, but most of Fred and the story is based on what I've taken in from other coaches and athletes that I've been around.

I find that I can learn just as much from bad coaches as I can from the good ones. The only thing is, unlike me, most vaulters will not be able to differentiate. They will see how high their athletes can jump, and that is usually all they will use to measure their coaching abilities... this is, of course, nonsensical. Look at the classic example of Ockert Britts: he had enormous technical flaws (most likely due to coaching), but was still able to clear 6m. However, one must realize that Ockert was much more athletic than Bubka, who should have jumped ~6.40. Even if Bubka and Ockert were close on PR, who was coached better?

Coach Smith is, to us at least, an awful coach. But HE IS NOT to his athletes, and that is a perfect example of the crucial problem with the American vault. Smith's vaulters do fine in relation to other vaulters in the area. They don't stand out. Even if they did (on the negative side), nothing would happen. Coach Miller would not suspect anything, and even if he did, he most likely would not adress the issue because he wouldn't know what to do! He knows he can't coach the vault himself, and he doesn't want the squad to be coachless.

That brings up the next issue: would Fred have been better off without Coach Smith?

I lean heavily towards 'yes'. Coach Smith's model of the vault (basically cannon-vaulting as described by altius in BTB) is downright dangerous (and worse yet, Fred feels relatively safe due to the white coat effect). That is the obvious one. But, on a more individual level, Fred might have avoided imprinting some elements of poor technique. It is better to leave a vaulter lost in what to do than to point them in the wrong direction. Coach Smith did just that, as a #2 coach.

PEOPLE! I'M TRYING TO MAKE A STATEMENT HERE! THIS IS HOW AMERICA'S HIGH SCHOOL VAULT WORKS! SOMETHING MUST BE DONE TO FIX IT! But what will be done, and how will it be done? Who is brave enough to undertake the daunting task of cleaning up this fine mess?

Look for more soon. I'm not done with Fred's first meet of the season, and I am going to talk about the how the rest of Fred's high school career went... then maybe college next (if I can get some help). Stay tuned.

[ACvault]

I thought this would be a good point in the thread to give some input.

I was essentially Fred without a coach. Here are the aspects I see in myself similar to Fred.

I was stuck with poor facilities.

I was extremely overwhelmed with PVP at first.

For most of my high school career I was focused on being stronger and faster since I had no one to help me with and critique my technique.

I ran cross country for two years. (Sophomore and Junior)

I practiced the same way as Fred for two years.

I warmed up the same way as Fred at meets for two years.

I probably vaulted the same way as Fred for two years.

This all went on up until the summer before my junior year when I went to the Skyjumpers Vault Camp. My technique was still mediocre at best, but I was improving in height and that was all that mattered at the time. Like I said, I was more concerned with getting stronger and faster because I was convinced if I did those things I could beat anyone on the runway. I didn't realize that I needed to be doing a lot more vaulting drills.

However, I think I turned out OK on my own. I figured out lot of stuff out through PVP and other sources. All in all, I had a pretty decent high school career. Won a good amount of meets, helped the team to a few championships, and I'm happy with it. I feel like I did what I could with what I had. What I had was no coaching, a limited pole selection, an OK facility but with no weather cover to keep the pits out so my jumping opportunities were minimal.

Do I think Fred would have been better off with out Coach Smith? Heck yes I do. Coach Smith is implementing dangerous habits and seems to know very little about the true idea of the vault. I know some people might argue it is unsafe to learn without a coach, and I agree with that to some extent. I often wonder how I didn't get hurt every week with the way I approached vaulting. But I think that with Coach Smith, Fred is setting himself up for an even greater risk. I may not have had the greatest technique, but I sure never had someone giving me a huge tap into the pit either. I had to learn my own way and in the end it turned out all right. Do I think I could have jumped higher in high school? Definitely. But at the end of the day I would rather be underdeveloped and improve later on with an experienced coach rather than form multiple bad habits.

[powerplant42]

Well said. It would be less dangerous without Smith around. For example, Fred wouldn't be gripping so high! His instincts would tell him, "You idiot, you're not that fast!" and he would be fine (instead of stalling consistently).

But do you all see what happens? An illusion is created... by everyone else being just as bad of vaulters! Fred SHOULD be jumping close to 13' at this point, and he should be getting beaten by 15'+ vaulters at every meet... this is not so. I'll finish up Fred's meet tomorrow if I can. I will try to take some actual meet results (from my area) and incorporate them.

[rainbowgirl28]

Well said. It would be less dangerous without Smith around. For example, Fred wouldn't be gripping so high! His instincts would tell him, "You idiot, you're not that fast!" and he would be fine (instead of stalling consistently).

I think you overestimate the reasoning skills of high schoolers who lack guidance. High school boys given absolutely no guidance in the event are generally just as likely to overgrip and do something dangerous as those given bad advice.

[KirkB]

Although ACvault made some very good points (that I agree with), I'm going to vote that Fred is better off WITH Coach Smith.

I will even go so far as to say that bad technique when you're vaulting at the 8-foot level isn't all that dangerous, no matter what your technique. With how tall Fred is and how high he's gripping, how many feet is he going to fall? Not many. He could even vault safely into a sawdust pit with the bar at 8 feet! Heh heh - trust me, I've been there and done that!

Even if he stalls out and doesn't make the [sawdust or foam] pit, it's not that far to fall. Again, trust me ... heh heh! Don't downplay the power of self-preservation! To stretch this argument even further, rookie vaulters need to LEARN how to stall out, so that they know how to do it when the bar is raised. And they WILL stall out occasionally, so plan on it! Like a cat, vaulters need to learn how to land on their feet - no matter where they land. I'm serious about this!

Remember that Fred is a rookie, so he doesn't know any more than Smith does when he picks up a pole for the first time. So even if Smith doesn't know the fine technical details, he can at least get Fred started. Smith has the keys to the equipment room, and he at least understands the basic principles of "running and jumping", so he can at least help Fred get his workouts started. Not only that, but as poor of a technical coach as he may be, Smith might be an excellent recruiter and motivator. He can inspire Fred to come out to practice and to train harder (if not smarter).

And until Fred comes up with any better ideas, at least he's vaulting - albeit perhaps with some of the bad technique that Smith is teaching him. I don't know how else to say this, other than to say that even with a super coach, it's a very, very rare occurrence that ANYBODY is going to be practicing "pure Petrov" technique on his very first meet of his rookie season. Or even at the end of his rookie season, for that matter.

My argument is that Fred has nothing better to do. Without Smith, he's lost - he would not vault at all. His only recourse would be to join a club (with a good coach) and not participate in the local HS track program. That's a very unlikely scenario. Fred won't even discover that Smith is a poor technician until later in the season (if at all). Therefore, Fred won't be signing up for expensive private lessons at a private track club.

Sure, Fred should do some reading on his own, and "talk technical" with other vaulters, but that's not all going to happen prior to his first meet of his first year. It takes time.

Over TIME, Smith's added value may become less and less if he doesn't grow with Fred in his understanding of PV, but for everything up to the first vault of the year, I'm sticking with my vote that Smith is doing more good than harm.

Maybe by the END of the season - if Smith doesn't ALSO learn more about "proper" PV technique, then , I'll flip my vote. But going by what you've described thus far, I'm supporting Smith and whatever his methods are for getting rookies started in the event.

You have to not only give Fred time to grow in his understanding of proper training methods and technique, but give Coach Smith time as well. Heck, if EVERY vaulter was "better off" without a coach at all than with an inexperienced (or bad) coach, then coaches would have no opportunity to LEARN the event - other than if they're vaulters themselves. In that scenario, how would anyone ever become a good coach? Like vaulters, coaches learn by EXPERIENCE.

Or let me ask this question a different way ... If ONLY coaches with personal pole vaulting experience OF PROPER TECHNIQUE coached, then how many of you would be without a coach today? We need to be more practical and more forgiving. There's not enough "good" coaches to go around. There isn't a coach with good personal PV experience for every HS. So the next best alternative is for someone with a general coaching background in athletics to add PV to his list of events. That's got to be better than no coach at all.

Alan Launder is perhaps an extreme case in point. He learned the event thru coaching, yet his general background (and open mind! ) allowed him to EVENTUALLY become one of the best PV coaches in the world!

Coaches are people too, and if they have an open mind and a willingness to learn, then they can pick up proper PV technique - perhaps even better than their HS athletes. They just need to be #3 or #4 type coaches. If they're #2, then they won't learn "new" techniques or training methods as readily as they should, because their mind is "closed".

Just my opinion.

Kirk