Less Vaulters Admitted to NCAA's Because of Notre Dame DMR!!

[jcoover]

15 men's teams went posted new automatic qualifying times in the DMR last night at Notre Dame's Alex Wilson Invite, which means that SIXTY athletes from those teams alone are now being admitted to the NCAA indoor meet. Even with some athletes doubling from DMR to open events, there are still forty or fifty new athletes now. With the NCAA's limit on number of athletes admitted (250 total?), this means that literally every event will now only see 12-14 athletes instead of the usual 14-18! All of a sudden, it's looking like it might take 5.35m+ on the guy's side to get in, when we thought only a few days ago it was looking like 5.32m!!!! Craziness...

[rainbowgirl28]

What sucks is they set up the track wrong at Notre Dame. They put the cones outside the track instead of on the line, so all of the runners got to run a little bit shorter distance.

I predict some coaches making a fuss about that.

[birdi_gurlie]

What's DMR?

[VaultPurple]

Distance Medley Relay (1200, 800, 400, 1600)

[birdi_gurlie]

Ah.

[rainbowgirl28]

I hate to copy anything from letsrun.com, but I don't know if there is a way to link to an exact post there, only a page of a thread. But anyway, this is a really good summary of the situation.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read. ... 209&page=1

For those who want the math, an indoor track with a maximum recommended curve radius of 21 meters (I don’t know the measurements of the ND track) would be reduced to a radius 20.9m when accounting for the absence of the curb (i.e., the 10cm difference that is being discussed). The total length of the curved part of the track (both ends) is equal to pi times the diameter (or pi times twice the radius). So the total length of the curved part of the track goes from 3.14x2x21=131.88 meters with the curb (as in previous years) to 3.14x2x20.9=131.25m when not curbed (as in 2009). This is a difference of 0.63m per lap (which is about 8.6m over the length of the DMR). Now, if the ND track was originally designed and certified for a curb, but the curb was not used, this would require that the outward face of the cones coincide with the edge of the white line closest to the track (i.e., away from the infield). Even then, the track has a smaller radius by 10cm (or 0.63m per lap). In other words, if the track had been certified without a curb, the white line would have to be 10cm out from where the curb normally goes to be certified for the same length (320m). This is because lane one is measured 20cm out from the line when there is no curb. Putting the cones on the inside edge of the line (another 5cm) is not only the incorrect placement when a curb is temporarily removed, but actually has the effect of permitting another 5cm of encroachment on the inside edge. A 15cm reduction in the radius is almost a meter per lap (0.94), or about 13m for the DMR. A miler running at 4:06 pace is going to take about 2 seconds to cover this distance. (Actually, it looked like the cones were even inside the line, and not even touching it – now we’re talking 2.5 seconds? 3 seconds?) No matter who ran on the line or who didn’t, who ran on the outside of lane one for most of the race, or whatever, that happens in every race. The dynamics of those two DMR heats were no different than any other. But a smaller track is a smaller track, no matter what, and the whole pack winds up running a shorter race, on average. That’s why the regulations are precise – because it matters.

You don’t even need to do the math. It makes no sense that 15 teams in 2 separate heats auto-qualified in the DMR. When has this ever happened before? Certainly never at this facility. It can’t be explained by a fast heat, a good day for a few teams, or anything else other than a change in the length of the race. And that is exactly what happened. The track was changed. The effect was across the board. Every team in both heats qualified in some fashion, even the crappy ones.

The bottom line is that the ND track either was certified with curb or it was not. If it was, then there is no question that the cones were in the wrong place and the track ran shorter than in previous years. If the track was certified without a curb, and it was “corrected” this year, then ND ought to be equally embarrassed for running it long for all those years. If you look at the past 3 years, in the longer runs (mile, 3000, 5000, 4x400, and DMR), there were 16 autos and 24 provisionals (16/24) in 2009, 0/17 in 2008, and 4/29 in 2007. And even though there were 3 autos and 15 provisonals in the DMR in 2007, the average time for the autos and provs was a full 7 seconds slower in 2007 than in 2009. It was also a full 7 seconds slower in 2008. If the curb was pulled in 2009 and the markings were changed accordingly and recertified, which I doubt, then there is no problem – every 2009 auto-qualification is valid, and good luck to the DMR 15 teams in Texas.

ND needs to provide the track certification for public scrutiny ASAP, before the field is selected for the championships. If there was a violation, then every coned race on that track should be thrown out. If there was not a violation this year, then they owe some apologies to the athletes that competed there all those years and missed auto-qualifying by tenths or hundredths of a second.

[polevaulter08nw]

this is not looking good for me... we will just have to see

[hallvaulter]

I am pulling for you scott, lets hope they figure this mess out. Great job yesterday. You are the man!

[vtcoach]

15 men's teams went posted new automatic qualifying times in the DMR last night at Notre Dame's Alex Wilson Invite, which means that SIXTY athletes from those teams alone are now being admitted to the NCAA indoor meet. Even with some athletes doubling from DMR to open events, there are still forty or fifty new athletes now. With the NCAA's limit on number of athletes admitted (250 total?), this means that literally every event will now only see 12-14 athletes instead of the usual 14-18! All of a sudden, it's looking like it might take 5.35m+ on the guy's side to get in, when we thought only a few days ago it was looking like 5.32m!!!! Craziness...

It is not quite that bad. These 15 teams bring the total number of DMR auto teams to 18. They usually take at least 12 relays so at most this is 6 extra teams, so about 24 slots. And some of those athletes will already be in the meet in other events so it may only be 16 or 18 extra athletes or about one less slot per event in the individual events. Also, I think the minimum in the individual events is 14 so you won't see any 12 athlete fields.