Inversion trust issues

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McKee150
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Inversion trust issues

Unread postby McKee150 » Sun May 08, 2016 9:58 am

Sounds corny, but I have trust issues swinging completely upside down on my big pole, even when landing far enough in the pit.

I'm a 12th grader, 5'9", around 161, and the pole I use in the video is a 14'6" 170 sky pole with a flex of 18.1. I don't know if it's my swing, or if I just need to drop my shoulders and go, but here's the video

https://youtu.be/QntRkVE-8ek

My step was around 3 inches under, sorry about my buddies head, atleast he has nice hair. The bar was 13, tying my PR, I would have tried to get better video, but it was a 3 jump meet, so we only were allowed 3 total competition jumps.

My essential question is what do I need to do to nail my swing and invert? I should be flying on this pole, gripping almost the top, getting pretty deep, even on a pole above my weight. I realize I might be asking the wrong question so please correct me and send me on the correct path to a higher vault. Thanks for your time.
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KirkB
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Re: Inversion trust issues

Unread postby KirkB » Sun May 08, 2016 2:14 pm

McKee150 wrote:Sounds corny, but I have trust issues swinging completely upside down on my big pole, even when landing far enough in the pit.

Not corny at all. You didn't land far enough into the pit on this vid jump. You're stalling out, and are in danger of landing in the box. No wonder you have "trust issues".

Yes, I know that you wouldn't have cleared the bar if you moved the standards back. But that's not the right focus. It would have been better to lower your grip, improve your technique, and land safely in the middle of the coach's box. That will solve your trust issues, and ultimately get you a far better PR.

McKee150 wrote: I don't know if it's my swing, or if I just need to drop my shoulders and go

I really don't know what you mean by "drop my shoulders", but your shoulders aren't your problem. It's your butt. It stays too low in what I call the "V" position (shoulders/butt/feet form a "V"). You need to swing your BUTT up. Your focus should be on swinging your butt up, not dropping your shoulders down, and not just swinging your feet up. It needs to be a full-body swing (a la Bubka).

It will be faster for you to learn how to swing properly on a highbar or rings, and then apply what you learned to the pole. It's really a waste of valuable vaulting time to be trying to short-cut this training by omitting the gym work. Even during the prime of the season (now).

And while you're in the gym, get on a tramp (if avail), and get used to being upside down. Back flips are good for this (with proper coaching and supervision), and also just lie on your back and just extend your legs up, bouncing by extending your legs and feet straight up. Any other drills or tricks where you're airborne upside down are good too. That will give you more confidence being upside down when you extend off the pole.

McKee150 wrote: sorry about my buddies head

Whoever was filming wasn't standing close enough to the pit. Don't be shy about asking your videographer to get in the right position to film, even if it means asking people to move over a bit!

McKee150 wrote: The bar was 13, tying my PR

Update your profile! :yes:

McKee150 wrote: what do I need to do to nail my swing and invert? I should be flying on this pole, gripping almost the top, getting pretty deep, even on a pole above my weight.

No, you're NOT "getting pretty deep". You just barely made the pit!

McKee150 wrote: I realize I might be asking the wrong question so please correct me and send me on the correct path to a higher vault.

That's a very good point. Most young vaulters zero in on the wrong thing, and don't ask the right questions. In your case, your idea about your shoulders is incorrect. But at least you provided vid, and left your questions open ended. So you're coachable, and I like that. I'm willing to help you some more if you take more (better) vid, and try the things that I suggest.

Good luck!

Kirk
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Re: Inversion trust issues

Unread postby McKee150 » Sun May 08, 2016 11:08 pm

Thanks for the quick response! And normally I do land in the coaches box, a bit farther into it too, but as mentioned this was an odd three jump limit meet. I cleared 11 so our team could win, and then had to wait a half hour for the 13 bar. I made my third and final jump attempt at 13'9" but was weak at the plant and have no video.

I'll try lowering my grip, but I'm stuck in a bind, lowering my grip too much turns the 14'6" 170 into a monster in my mind, and the next smallest pole is a 14' 165 I blow through with the standards at 32". I'll try lowering to 13'10" on the 170 and see if I can make it work for me. And by dropping my shoulders I mean lifting my hips, I have a habit of getting stuck in the L shape instead of a nice inversion. Dropping shoulders is how I refer to it because mine seem tight and stuck facing the sky.

Core strength isn't much of an issue, I still work on it twice a week, I don't have a high bar but I did install rings by our pit, and I can still get a double reverse dive off a 1m springboard, not pretty but it lands feet first! Thanks again for the help, and I'll try and get some good video either Monday or Tuesday! :yes:
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Re: Inversion trust issues

Unread postby KirkB » Sun May 08, 2016 11:19 pm

McKee150 wrote: I have a habit of getting stuck in the L shape instead of a nice inversion.

That's not an "L" - that's a "V". It would be better if it's an "L", but it's not. :no:

I'll look forward to your next vid. Show us a vid where you're landing in the middle of the coach's box. And an "L" instead of a "V".

The reason landing well into the pit is important is that I thought maybe that your lack of confidence in inverting might be linked to your near-stall clearance (in the last vid).

But if you can do a double off the 1m board, then it doesn't sound like you're lacking any confidence in being upside down. So I'm a bit stumped now.

So you cleared 13-9? Then change your profile to that! :yes: I'm actually a bit confused - was it 13-0 or 13-9? :confused:

Kirk
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Re: Inversion trust issues

Unread postby GasPasser » Mon May 09, 2016 5:01 am

I agree with everything Kirk is advising. One additional thing I saw in your video is that you are pulling with both arms half way through your swing. When you pull then, the pole will start to un-bend (and before your are ready). If you stay long through the swing, and simultaneously move your straight arms to your thighs, and your thighs to your hands, you'll end up inverted with the pole ready to shoot you skyward.

The pull does not occur until you are inverted, and close to the pole. You then pull the pole up your body to your chin - then fly away,

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Re: Inversion trust issues

Unread postby charlie » Mon May 09, 2016 2:30 pm

I do not disagree with any comments, but if you pulled your HIPS up early mid way through the inversion , you would not stall!! You would FLY !!!!

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Re: Inversion trust issues

Unread postby KirkB » Mon May 09, 2016 2:49 pm

charlie wrote: if you pulled your HIPS up early mid way through the inversion , you ... would FLY !!!!

:yes:

If you can't SWING them up, then pulling them up (i.e. rowing) is the next best thing! Either way, just get your hips up! Get to the "I" position (rather than the "V" or "L").

charlie wrote: if you pulled your HIPS up early mid way through the inversion , you would not stall!! ...

I'm not sure how this would prevent stalling though. Or maybe you mean by also lowering his grip by a fist? Can you explain this, Charlie? :confused:

Kirk
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Re: Inversion trust issues

Unread postby charlie » Mon May 09, 2016 5:20 pm

He doesn't catch the lift because he swings to the L position and does NOT continue through the vault! If you continue through the vault, the
pole WILL continue to run and you will not STALL!!!!

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Re: Inversion trust issues

Unread postby McKee150 » Thu May 12, 2016 12:07 am

Thanks so much for the help, I just got home from our conference meet, I PR'd and cleared 13'4", a great day considering how sluggish I started the competition out, and overall not my fastest day by far, but still a good one.

https://youtu.be/HlamL3IHpj4

And then an attempt at 13'8"

https://youtu.be/RezTyjkYlNg

Kirk, I believe you hit the nail on the head, I get stuck in the v on this pole big time, but on a smaller pole I seem to invert fine! And I also realize I need to make my vault more continuous, and keep swinging.

That being said knowing what I need to do and doing it are two separate things, I looked at some early posts about getting out of the v, but I already have the core necessary. Also the videos aren't the best(again sorry) I can try and get ahold of a film of the same two vaults but it includes the plant, they just aren't on my phone right now.

To wrap up, are there any methods or tips that might help me get out of the v on a bigger pole? I really appreciate the input, and am already trying to work on keep my arms from pulling as recommended. Making the transition from plant to swing to inversion smoother would really help me out, I just feel like if I rush my swing a lose a lot of drive and therefore penetration onto the mat. Thanks again for the already great info.
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Re: Inversion trust issues

Unread postby KirkB » Thu May 12, 2016 1:02 am

McKee150 wrote: I PR'd and cleared 13'4"

:yes: Update your profile!

McKee150 wrote: That being said knowing what I need to do and doing it are two separate things

Agreed. But I'm not so sure you even know what you need to do yet. You don't need to "get out of the V", and you don't need a bigger pole.

McKee150 wrote: are there any methods or tips that might help me get out of the v on a bigger pole?

Instead of getting out of the V, you need to learn how to not get into it in the first place.

As already said, that's best learned in the gym - not on the pole. There are no silver bullets.

And you need to learn how to swing with a lower grip, then raise your grip after you're swinging your HIPS up.

What was your grip on each of the 3 vaults posted? And tell me again what poles those were on? And where you had your standards?

Thanks.

Kirk
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Re: Inversion trust issues

Unread postby McKee150 » Thu May 12, 2016 7:15 am

Sorry for the mix up, the green pole in the video is my big pole, we have a smaller pole, but I end up knocking bars off on the way up even with the standards buried.

Grip was as low as I could get it(while still keeping my bottom hand on grip tape) around 14'3", standards were at 18, and the pole is a 14'6" 170 sky pole with a flex of 18.1, I feel like if I make it more continuous I'll end up much deeper In the pit, and by sitting in the v I'm actually stalling myself out. I'll be working on avoiding getting stuck Friday, I might get some better film then. My plans are to work on straighter arms, and a more active left leg in the swing. Thanks again.
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KirkB
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Re: Inversion trust issues

Unread postby KirkB » Thu May 12, 2016 12:31 pm

McKee150 wrote: the green pole in the video is my big pole, we have a smaller pole, but I end up knocking bars off on the way up even with the standards buried.

Grip was as low as I could get it(while still keeping my bottom hand on grip tape) around 14'3", standards were at 18, and the pole is a 14'6" 170 sky pole with a flex of 18.1

So let's see if I got this straight ...

You used your green (heavy) pole in all 3 vids in this thread. None of the vids were with your smaller pole.

You have not shown any vids of you knocking the bar off on the way up (with standards at 80).

Grip on all 3 vids was 14-3.

Is that right?

McKee150 wrote: Grip was as low as I could get it(while still keeping my bottom hand on grip tape) around 14'3", standards were at 18, and the pole is a 14'6" 170 sky pole with a flex of 18.1

Have you considered putting more grip tape on the pole, lower down? :confused:

I think you'd be better off lowering your grip to 13-11 (one fist) and setting your standards to 80cm (31.5"). You'll learn how to swing much easier then.

McKee150 wrote: I feel like if I make it more continuous I'll end up much deeper In the pit, and by sitting in the v I'm actually stalling myself out. .

Yes, you will end up deeper in the pit. That's because you'll be bending the pole more, and so the pole will roll forwards toward the pit faster. I think that might be what Charlie was trying to say too.

McKee150 wrote: My plans are to work on straighter arms ...

You're correct in thinking that your arms should be stretched up as high as they'll go on takeoff. That's called a tall plant. But don't worry too much about your arms yet. Just focus on swinging the hips up. But I do agree that you need a tall plant to get a good swing.

McKee150 wrote: ... and a more active left leg in the swing.

:yes:

Not just an active trail leg, but active HIPS. You need to learn how to swing your full body - not just your trail leg.

Don't forget to practice this in the gym on highbars or rings, so that you don't waste too much time at the track, trying to learn this on the pole.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!


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