talented kid

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PoleVaultStipke
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talented kid

Unread postby PoleVaultStipke » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:46 am

Hey guys,

I am a "young" Belgian coach with a bunch of young athletes. About a year ago, an 11-year-old kid walks in who wants to do pole vault. Great motor skills and really intelligent. Right now he is 12 and is doing pretty awesome. I wondered what you guys think should be the focus of his jumping. I posted the video's of his last competition below. His record is at 3m12 (10 feet 3 inches).

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2fdy67u1nyqldn2/AACdHpwVVVe5m8EpKI1ddvu0a?dl=0

Thanks!
Steffen
Greatness is build one step at a time!

PoleVaultStipke
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Re: talented kid

Unread postby PoleVaultStipke » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:36 am

Really? No feedback?

How about this one?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/apkqi6w2lje7p ... 5.mp4?dl=0

-> new record on 3m18 (he's at 3m20 now)

Thanks!
Greatness is build one step at a time!

grandevaulter
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Re: talented kid

Unread postby grandevaulter » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:43 pm

My comments would require that you and he start completely over from the beginning using the Petrov/Bubka technical model. I have had the opportunity to watch the number one girl in the state of Michigan, USA developing and jumping 4.15 . She is exploiting elements of the model. This includes aiming for a free take off and swinging long to the cord of the pole and continuing sweeping and swinging long until she covers the pole. You may still be able to locate the book "From beginner to Bubka and Isenbeyva too" . Tchus

dmaterial
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Re: talented kid

Unread postby dmaterial » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:22 am

Need to be able to c the video. From the little i can c. It looks good. Best advice for a young vauler is gymnastics and lots of it. When i coach. I wish i had many gymnast to teach. Keep up the goos work. Perfect practice. Makes a perfect vaulter. Allways concentrate on perfect technique. Email me with any questions. Dmaterial@aol.com. thank u d

PoleVaultStipke
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Re: talented kid

Unread postby PoleVaultStipke » Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:32 am

Hello,

First of all, thank you for your comment, however is was not a flattering one for me ;). I am his coach and i do have the textbook From Beginner to Bubka and I am trying to apply these concepts right from the start. Your comment indicates that I might not be doing a verry good job :).

My main concern with him is to get him to plant in time. He is a bit late and not fully extended at take-off. I feel this is essential to move his take-off further out. He also drops his knee a bit and his trail-leg breaks. I prefer a swing all the way to the top.

Keeping in mind that he is 12 and been jumping for a little over a year know, any further suggestions?

Thanks!
Greatness is build one step at a time!

grandevaulter
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Re: talented kid

Unread postby grandevaulter » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:12 pm

PoleVaultStipke wrote:First of all, thank you for your comment, however is was not a flattering one for me . I am his coach and i do have the textbook From Beginner to Bubka and I am trying to apply these concepts right from the start. Your comment indicates that I might not be doing a verry good job .

It appears to me that he is not hitting any key positions in relation to the P/B technical model. He must swing long to the cord of the pole around his top hand and not pull his sweep leg in. The longer you allow this, the more difficult it will be to correct it.

PoleVaultStipke wrote:Keeping in mind that he is 12 and been jumping for a little over a year know, any further suggestions?

Suggestion 1. Don't make excuses for age and less than optimal execution. 2. Don't get sensitive when asking for help on this forum. 3.READ CHAPTER 12 of BTB2 and learn how to do the very drills used by Bubka and Isenbayeva.

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KirkB
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Re: talented kid

Unread postby KirkB » Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:16 pm

Grandevaulter, give Steffan a break!

You advised him to "start over", and to follow the BTB2 book.

While that advice might have been hyour honest appraisal of his situation, it wasn't very tactful, so I don't blame Steffan for his reply.

Personally, I happen to believe that you CAN'T start over. You MUST continue on from wherever you happen to be. Yes, carrying on might mean that some things need to be unlearned, but for the most part, PV training is about building onto what you already have so far, in small incremental steps.

Perhaps you meant that he should coach his protege to "get back to basics"? That would be a more constructive way of coaching the coach.

Steffan: Congratulations on your coaching so far. Don't let negative comments discourage you from asking for advice on PVP. Grandevaulter is a good coach, and he meant well.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

grandevaulter
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Re: talented kid

Unread postby grandevaulter » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:54 pm

One year of not hitting key positions is 364 days too many. The horses have been out of the barn too long. You have to catch them as soon as they run off.

PoleVaultStipke
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Re: talented kid

Unread postby PoleVaultStipke » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:34 am

Thanks KirkB for the encouragement,

Don't worry i believe in critisism and i don't feel offended by grandevaulter. I think it is a good thing that coaches are direct when discussing training. Sugarcoating something doesn't help catching the essence. So thank you for that.

However,

Each training we work on the basics. Espacially for the plant. Extended right arm before left foot contact - Good knee with heel tucked in - finish the take-off with fully extended leg (hip, knee, ankle) - etc... lots of these exercises 2 steps - 4 steps / walking - running.. repeat - repeat - repeat

I don't believe in not letting them jump untill each step is perfect. Even focussed and talented kids need to get hooked on the sport. So within limits of BIG mistakes and security, they will jump on 8 - 10 steps (if they have good controll 12 steps) at the end of most trainings. And they will do competitions (at this age 10 - 15 a year)

I think this is the explanation why he is not hitting al the key points (yet).

Grandevaulter:
I presume you start really detailed from the beginning? Only working from really short approaches and mainly in the sand box untill everything is perfect and move to a little longer run-up to integrate the next steps? What ages do you work with? Do you have some video of your vaulters? I would love to see it!


@dmaterial:
We have acces to a pretty decent gymnastics room. I have a list of the exercises we work on but it is all in dutch ;) For the small ones the focus is on basic gymnastics (rolls -handstands - flikflak- cartwheel - courbet in rings and highbar - and a lot of other ones). If they master these and show proper tention, i start on big swings in the highbar.

coaches shoot! this is really interesting to me as a coach with 2-3 year experience as pole vault coach!

@all This is the same kid a year ago. Sorry for the grainy video..

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fq6vxj6if15o8 ... s.avi?dl=0
Greatness is build one step at a time!

charlie
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Re: talented kid

Unread postby charlie » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:48 pm

Way too much straight arm BLOCK, keeps the hips from coming through! The ELITE is a BENT ARM PRESS support plant to load the pole!

grandevaulter
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Re: talented kid

Unread postby grandevaulter » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:28 pm

PoleVaultStipke wrote:Grandevaulter:
I presume you start really detailed from the beginning? Only working from really short approaches and mainly in the sand box untill everything is perfect and move to a little longer run-up to integrate the next steps? What ages do you work with? Do you have some video of your vaulters? I would love to see it!

Not all is perfect in my world Stipke, but we work to do simple things extraordinarily well. I keep the horses in the barn and if they get out, I catch them quickly. 12-15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdEc_6h2B58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXj8LVr_7Es
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCrdDIyPWAA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FhHPQiA-qs

This boy started four months ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DU3n11_Ot4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1alJxrIq1A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgKfJHQJFVA

PoleVaultStipke
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Re: talented kid

Unread postby PoleVaultStipke » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:32 am

Hi grandevaulter,

It's really cool that you guys are out jumping in the snow. If they can jump there, they can jump anywhere right? ;) I would like to put some comments at your video's to see if we agree on some keypoints. Feel free to let me know where you agree and where you see something different.

Not all is perfect in my world Stipke, but we work to do simple things extraordinarily well. I keep the horses in the barn and if they get out, I catch them quickly. 12-15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdEc_6h2B58

2 small points really: 1: With this exercise I try to teach them to jump before the pole touches the ground. I feel this is the right way to teach the feeling of pre-jump. 2: both of them tilt their head back, this often leads to loss of tension in the upper body (of course pre jumping in snow might be a bit hard ;))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXj8LVr_7Es

Look very good for 1 small detail: I like to make them keep the knee higher even on the way down. She drops it just a little bit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCrdDIyPWAA

BEFORE food contact, her left arm is not fully extended. Also as in the first video, I like to see a take-off before the pole touches the ground. (again, the snow doesn’t make it easier)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FhHPQiA-qs

Well obviously she is 2 steps early with the plant and she takes of under. Also her head is way back even before take-off. You have some work here coach! 
This boy started four months ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DU3n11_Ot4

I like the fact that his right arm is extended upon contact of his take-off foot. Good knee and finishes his take-off. This looks good. Teach him to really jump up so that his pole touches the sand after the take-off. Also, there is some work on his running, he needs to get his toes up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1alJxrIq1A

When his leg is all the way up at the back, he seems to lose tension in his back and he bents his knee. I don’t know if you encourage this but I try to get them to keep the leg fully extended. Power comes from hips and shoulders and not from the knee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgKfJHQJFVA

The take-off is a bit under (although I know it is really tough to get a young athlete to the perfect take-off spot). He breaks his trail-leg at the knee. Also, het throws his head back which will make it really hard for him to extend to the vertical.

Conclusion: I am glad to see that your jumpers are human too. You had me a little worried there ;). Feel free to discuss the corrections I am talking about.


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