Help with the top end

[IAmTheWalrus]

So I've moved up to a 13'7 grip on a 15' 170. I'm still going from 4 lefts, and I weigh around 175 or so.
Bungee is at 15'.

So I fell as though the middle of the jump (beginning of the swing until I start tucking my legs in) is one of the best I've had, and I also feel like I do a better job of continuing the jump through the extension, as apposed to pausing, then shooting. (I hope that makes sense)

However, I seem to get almost nothing out of the pole and flag out a ton, and I'm a little confused as to why. I feel like this is an improvement over some of my recent jumps, and its on a bigger pole, but the result seems worse than some of my "tuck and shoots." You can't actually see the takeoff, but I'm pretty consistently about 8-10" from being free, so I'm sure this one is not free either.

So in summary, how can I jump higher , no but seriously, what should I work on to maintain a more vertical extension or correct any other problems that keep me from harnessing the energy of this pole.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OniE1i_VXk

Thanks!

[powerplant42]

It LOOKS to me as if you're running a little under yourself... Then the plant is late as a result, then that causes the take-off to be under and the right leg to get pulled up during the swing.

Ostriches and 20/20's to start!

[KirkB]

... I'm still going from 4 lefts ...

On youtube it says 4 steps.

... So I felt as though the middle of the jump (beginning of the swing until I start tucking my legs in) is one of the best I've had, and I also feel like I do a better job of continuing the jump through the extension, as opposed to pausing, then shooting. (I hope that makes sense)

However, I seem to get almost nothing out of the pole and flag out a ton, and I'm a little confused as to why. I feel like this is an improvement over some of my recent jumps, and its on a bigger pole, but the result seems worse than some of my "tuck and shoots." You can't actually see the takeoff, but I'm pretty consistently about 8-10" from being free, so I'm sure this one is not free either. ...

I don't remember your previous (tuck/shoot) jumps ... maybe you can provide a link so that I can compare. But from this jump ... without seeing the takeoff ... it sure looks like you've done a mighty fine job of ridding yourself of that pesky tuck!

Without the takeoff it's hard to say, but you do have a rather poor backwards lean in the C ... and then you have a hard time staying with the pole. Can't say for sure, but it also seems that you're shrugging your shoulders during your inversion ... rather than dropping them (raise hips; keep arms long) as you invert. If so, this is quite inefficient. But for the most part, the energy loss that you feel ... and that I see ... is due to takeoff/downswing issues. My guess is that you're lacking a good forwards lean on takeoff ... and maybe you're not jumping into the C as vigorously as you should and could.

... what should I work on to maintain a more vertical extension or correct any other problems that keep me from harnessing the energy of this pole.

I wouldn't worry about the top half just yet. I think once you iron out some of the bottom half issues, the top half will take care of itself.

Also, I know what you MEAN when you say "harnessing the energy of this pole", but I'm sure that you know what I mean when I say that the pole is just the vehicle to store ... and then return ... the energy that YOU put into it from your run and jump!

I think ... and hope ... you'll find that once you break in this "bigger pole", you'll bend it a bit more ... by your bottom half improvements ... and that will give you a bit more time to invert ... straight up.

Kirk

[bel142]

Morning,

I am seeing some good things and some not so good things,

The good... You have a monster swing... I am a fan...

Further more, I agree with Kirk about the above and your shoulders being shrugged and not dropped, and that leads to my next point, it looks like you are cranking the shoulders forward too soon. You are not letting your body hit the chord of the pole, as a whole pendulum. I think if you can learn to hit the chord as a whole pendulum you will need more grip and need more fiber glass. I think that is leading to some of your problems later on in your vault. Its placing you at a strangle angle and you are loosing some energy.

You are a big guy, I also think when you start placing more fiber glass between you and the box, you are going have more time on the pole to get into position and you will start seeing a lot more pop on top...

just some thoughts,
bel...

[tsorenson]

Nice jumping!
A lot of things look great about your vault, it is interesting to compare your vaults on your 13'6 pole with these vaults on the 15 footer. I have many of the same challenges that you are describing, so take this all with a grain of salt. If I could follow my own coaching I'd be vaulting a lot higher...

The first thing I notice is that your left hand drops pretty low during your plant. If it stayed higher you'd plant faster and consequently quicken your steps more. Work on this actively during your 3 step stiff pole stay-behind drill. You will see how it can positively affect your plant.

It seems that because you are not taking off free, you are causing three problems for yourself on top:
1. losing energy from your run, so you lose a lot of pole speed, and the pole barely stands up to vertical (causing you to instinctively flag out early from your finish to land in the pit)
2. the pole is recoiling before you can fully extend so you are having to fight to get inverted (this may be causing your shoulder shrug issue...) With a free takeoff you will be inverted with your hips above your shoulders when the pole is still at maximum bend...when I achieve this position the inversion feels literally effortless (but scary...takes some getting used to)
3. as stated above, your "under" plant causes your posture to deteriorate, pulling your body forward too soon. A more correct takeoff point will fix this by default.

If you can get your step out a little more (more free), and develop the confidence to execute the same excellent swing, your top end will take care of itself. You should continue with the short run vaulting but also start using some 5 and 6 step approaches so that you can try to transfer your technique to longer runs. Good luck,
Tom
PS You aren't that big. I am 6'2 195...ouch

[IAmTheWalrus]

Thanks for all the help guys. I had a really good practice this weekend (video below), mainly I think due to me running harder out of the back and hitting a more aggressive takeoff. Let me know what you think. I think its getting better, but its still not free, and I still have no idea how to "drop my shoulders" at the top of the jump. I'm not too worried about that though. I still have plenty to work on with the swing and takeoff before I need to worry about the very top.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tri8LCMaMoo

15' 170 (13'7" grip)
4 lefts (54' 10")
bungee at 15'
I weigh 175

P.S. I was really proud of this jump until I woke up this morning and saw steve hooker's RIDICULOUS jump over 5.61. Come on man!

[KirkB]

... I still have no idea how to "drop my shoulders" at the top of the jump. I'm not too worried about that though. I still have plenty to work on with the swing and takeoff before I need to worry about the very top.

Dropping your shoulders isn't to be taken literally. It just FEELS like your shoulders drop ... actually what happens is that you just keep your arms long ... especially your top arm ... and by raising your hips, it FEELS like you're dropping your shoulders. In a hip-circle-to-handstand on the highbar, you do actually drop your shoulders. Done right on the pole, you should feel this same sensation.

I'll take a look at your vid later ... and comment on the more important bottom half stuff.

Kirk

[tsorenson]

Since last time...great improvement in your timing and confidence on the same pole with the same grip=higher vault. Nice job! Even though I can tell that you are "bringing it" a lot more out of the back, you still keep your posture nicely (just like Hooker...without the mutant factor)

Still looks like you are a little under, something very hard to fix...just continue to strive for a quicker takeoff; moving your step back doesn't always work. You may be carrying the pole horizontally just a hair too long...? Hard to get too detailed on a YouTube, can't go frame by frame

I agree with Kirk that "dropping the shoulders" is a somewhat misleading term. In reality, your shoulders (and entire body) continue to rise throughout your vault. They do drop relative to the hips, but in my experience when people focus too much on dropping the shoulders they end up throwing their heads back. Focusing on driving the hips up with a long top arm is the way to go, and simultaneously watching your left hand pass tight past the left side of your face (this will help you initiate the turn a fuzz earlier). Your vault is looking great, don't try to change anything too drastically; just work on more confidence and get your takeoff step out a little further (these two things tend to go hand-in-hand)

Are you doing any longer runs?
Keep up the good work

Tom

[Barto]

For what it is worth...

It looks as if most of your technical issues are derived from a rather poor power to weight ratio. You are just not putting enough force into the ground to overcome the inertia of your body mass. I'm not suggesting that you go lose 20 pounds or that you are not already training very hard, but rather that your technique is actually quite good and that what flaws you have would mostly correct themselves if you either get more powerful without gaining more weight or can keep your current power level while managing to lose some weight.

[KirkB]

15' 170 (13'7" grip)
4 lefts (54' 10")
bungee at 15'
I weigh 175

Wally, I seem to recall you weighing more last year. Did you lose some weight? As Barto says, your strength-to-weight ratio is quite important ... but you've improved it in the past year, haven't you?

Kirk

[IAmTheWalrus]

Yes and no. Every season I start at about 180 and get down to about 170 for the competition season. Last year I hit an all time low of 165 for a day at conferences, but I think that was ridiculously unhealthy. I'm a little heavier than I usually am around this time of year (175 as apposed to 170), but my manner of weight loss and management is much healthier this year (a big time focus on hydration and eating the right food as apposed to trying to "sweat it off"). Also, I really don't think its realistic to go too far below 175 or 170 without it being purely water loss and adversely affect my performance. At about 180lbs I was 6% body fat, and I don't really want to find out the limits of the human body in this regard. My focus is more on maintaining my current weight and improving explosiveness (basically sprint speed and long jump ability) without much weight gain. Its interesting you (Barto) say that my ratio is poor, because I've weighed 170ish during the indoor and outdoor season for the past 4 years and improved my strength and speed greatly over that time, meaning that my ratio must have been awful as a freshman. Also, I'm under the assumption that we are talking about strength/power to weight ratio in terms of my ability to run and jump, is that right? Where and how would you recommend I improve it?

FYI
Clean max: 275
snatch max: 175
Deadlift Max: 450
Squat Max: 435

[Barto]

What is your standing long jump, standing triple jump, ratio of snatch to body weight (elite men should be able to snatch 150% of weight from the floor)? These measurments are what determines your potential. 6% is not very meaningful. Just because it is muscle does not mean it is helping you jump any higher. Lose the extra stuff and jump higher.