Landing parallel to box

[Vaultgrrrl]

Recently, my vaulters have started landing facing the left side of the pit. It's like an epidemic. They start to swing up, but their legs just kinda fall off to the left. The vaulter at 0:57 on the video has the most trouble with this. His stats are these:

Grade: Junior
How long you have been jumping: 3 years (without a coach)
What pole you are on (length and weight rating): 11' 140
How high you are gripping: around 10' 3
What bar(s) you are attempting in the video: 8'

He jumps the same from a lower grip. What does he need to do to straighten out his jump?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKVzbriuE7Q

Also, if you see something you'd like to point out about one of the other vaulters, feel free to comment on them as well. I'm trying to help them undo three years of bad habits from not having a coach, and I could use all the help I can get.

[Andy_C]

Hello,

Would you mind providing a video (or pictures) of the vaulters from behind? I'm curious to see the position of the pole and the relative position of the vaulter's body during take-off. I've got several suspicions...


1) They're not taking off straight behind the pole (difficult to see from this angle). It's hard to stay behind the pole of you don't take off with a solid body position. They need to learn how to take off straight and not overtake the pole especially with low-grip straight pole drills. I think straight pole "Jagodins" (I think they're called here), will be your best friend. Here's a good one but more advanced:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i63tjlvr74c
I would keep them below 6 steps (3 lefts) for now. Don't push their grip too high if they're not capable. The most important thing is that they learn how to take off properly and reach the other side of the mat consistently and confidently.

2) I would say that most of them were pulling or rowing in some fashion. This will worsen the problem if they don't take off well. Notice how they all turn significantly once they pull.

3) They may be planting quite late and hence, their plant ends up behind and laterally to the right. This may play a hand in turning them in mid air. Another symptom of this is if the vaulter consistently lands to the right side of the mat (if they're right handed), though this may not be too apparent until they start gripping higher.

If you're trying to fix very bad technique, it's almost like teaching somebody how to pole vault all over again. In my personal opinion, the take-off should be the absolute priority for these kids right now. They're taking off under, have very deep strides just before take off, not staying behind the pole, pushing the pole down into the box and pulling after take off. Safety is always #1 and they need to learn how to land deep into the mat (especially the first boy!). Hope that helps!

-Andrew

[Vaultgrrrl]

Thanks for the suggestions. It is like trying to start all over again. I'll try to get some pictures from behind tomorrow.

They do start off low on the pole, and usually work from 4-6 steps. They also warm up with jagodins, during which they land a lot deeper, but as soon as the swing enters the equation, things go south. I understand what you're saying about pulling because the vaulter who has the biggest problem turning sideways is the one who can't do a 0-step grass plant without pulling. How do I break that habit?

Also, you'll be glad to know that the first boy normally jumps much better. His friend did the video editing, and I think he picked every bad jump on purpose. It was towards the end of practice, which didn't help either. I'm thinking he should have stopped earlier, but he wanted to get some jumps on video. It's good to know what went wrong on those jumps, though. This coaching thing is harder than it looks.

[vcpvcoach]

First off, take down the bungee. All of your vaulters are trying to get over the bungee and not swinging to vertical. Next, go to the developmental section of this board and watch the Dave Butler video at Reno. Do the drills in the video.

Nuff said.

[vcpvcoach]

Not enuff said.

How much time do you spend on the swing to vertical? With the bungee down, your vaulters will be able to swing better. Once they can swing to vertical without a bungee, put a bar up three feet above their PR and tell them to swing to vertical and kick the bar off. Next, put a bungee up one foot above their PR and a bar three foot above their PR. Then, tell them to kick the bar off.

With the drill that Dave Butler details in his videos and the bar being at the apex of their swing, they should be able to stay behind the pole and not swing around the pole.

[Vaultgrrrl]

Believe it or not, most of the time, we don't have the bungee up. Though, their swings seem to look the same as when it's up. We're trying to find the school's set of rings to put under the scoreboard.

I have seen the Dave Butler video. It really was helpful. I've been trying to incorporate the drills into practice.

[master]

All these vaulters are "hooking" their bottom arm/elbow around the pole during the swing. This stops the forward motion of the swing, but stops it on the left side, thus creating a torque that is spinning all of them CCW around the pole (when looking down the pole toward the box.) The vaulter at 0:57 hooks then releases so the result is reduced, but if they could learn to let the pole pass on the outside of the arm/elbow the body could continue its swing more or less straight toward the back of the pit.

Of course once they are bending the pole, it doesn't take an effort to keep the pole to the outside of the arm/elbow.

- master

[Andy_C]

Hello again,

I would just like to clarify some of my points, perhaps a bit more detail about my ideas would be more useful. Though what I'm trying to point out is actually something along the lines of what Master brought up, I still think that the core problem lies in the take-off. It's very difficult to tell at this angle but I think they are not taking off in-line with the pole. Take a look at each of the vaulter's take off feet, their left feet are landing well into the right side of the runway on their jump step. What I think happens is that they will basically vault with the pole across their upper body rather than straight-on right down their mid-line. At the moment of take-off, their hips are already to the side of the pole making it very difficult to stay behind it.

The turning itself, as Master put it, is the result of the upper body slowing while the lower body continues to move around the side.

One quick note about the jagodins, with regards to this problem they can be very deceptive if you look at it from this angle (which is why I'm asking for the view behind the vaulter) and it also depends on the vaulter's grip . If they are jumping from low grips and from 4-6 steps, it will probably look okay as they will be carrying enough horizontal speed to get them through the jump. It's when they *stall*, that you will see this problem. When the pole slows down, either due to a high grip or if they pull, they will still keep momentum in their lower body (adding momentum if they try to swing). The result is that instead of swinging from behind the pole like on a high bar, they end up swinging from the side of the pole like a tether ball! You can see this happen in the jagodins if you push their grip high enough so that they stall (though I don't recommend doing this at their level). With their lower body momentum, they will overtake the pole while their upper body remains with the pole. If their grip is low enough, the pole along with their upper body will not stall and you won't get the "tether-ball effect" since the upper body will keep moving along with the lower body even if there is a misalignment from take-off. Essentially, if somebody is misaligned like this, the larger the difference of momentum between the upper and lower body, the greater the chances of them turning. I've included a little diagram I drew up on MSpaint. Please excuse the quality as I only took about 5 minutes to do it, but I think it's sufficient. It basically details the position I'm referring to at take-off. Note that you will need to pass the pole to the side but this occurs after take-off once you pass the chord of the pole and swing your legs to cover the pole. But this is at a much more advanced stage.

Also note, about the diagram... The mid-line of the vaulter refers to the line from their right hand (or top hand) to bottom right foot (or take-off foot). At take-off, the vaulter should try their best to keep their take-off foot directly behind the pole. This will help prevent them from having a misaligned take-off, proper alignment in return will help you deliver optimum energy to the pole and will also help to maximize the pole to ground angle at take-off.

This problem is quite peculiar because you will only ever see it if somebody stalls! When the pole stalls, you can think of it as a stationary tether ball pole in this position. If they can keep the pole speed up through the jump, they won't turn. I'm pretty sure a lot of experienced vaulters are getting away with it right now but they do have a technical error that won't be doing them any favors.

One last note... This is what I THINK is happening, which is why I'm asking for the picture/video from behind. I could very well be wrong regarding your vaulter's situation, but regardless, something to keep in mind; it's hard to stay behind the pole during the jump if you're not there in the first place!

-Andrew

P.S. You may not need to get me pictures or videos. If what I've said has been a good enough description, you can just look them from behind yourself when you get the chance.

[Vaultgrrrl]

The drawing did help, but I'm still having trouble determining whether it's the elbows hooking or just bad take-offs pulling them to the left. Chances are it's probably both, so here are some pictures from the runway. They're hosted on my server, which I'm still trying to figure out, so let me know if you can't see them.

This is the last vaulter in the video. Like Master suggests, he doesn't turn horizontal when the pole bends, just on short runs holding lower.
http://runitagain.mvix.net/DSCN0165.JPG

This is the vaulter at 0:57 in the video. The first is from behind on the runway, the second is from the side.
http://runitagain.mvix.net/DSCN0175.JPG
http://runitagain.mvix.net/DSCN0179.JPG

[master]

Those look like reasonably good (body and pole inline and centered, pole vertical) body-to-pole positions to me.

Until the pole bends out of the way (after the vaulter has learned to do enough things correctly) the vaulter's body must pass the pole on the side of the pole. This means there is an imbalance of forces. If the pole speed is low, meaning the vaulter's speed, grip and take off combination is just enough such that he/she is just getting the pole to vertical, then that imbalance will have a large impact on what happens to their body

On the other hand, if there is fast pole speed, and more importantly, forces created by a strong drive knee at take off and then a powerful whip swing of the trail leg, and the body isn't restricted in it's motion by hooking of the bottom arm/elbow, then those forces will overcome the imbalance by the vaulter's body needing to be on the side of the pole. The more energy you direct inline with the runway (straight down the centerline) the better. This especially includes the vaulter having the pole directly in front of them at take off. Both photos looking down the runway show very good position in this regard.

The early vaults in the video show a double leg swing without much drive knee and a very passive trail leg swing. It appears the vaulter is just lifting their trail leg rather than kicking it with energy.

If you are doing the drill where you take off and stay behind the pole, it is OK to hook the elbow. In fact if you let your trail leg bump up against the pole doing the drill, it would be nearly impossible for your elbow to pass the pole on the side where you swing past during a jump. As soon as you are doing a drill to include a swing past the pole and land on your back, the elbow really needs to get by the pole.

- master

[twistpv]

it looks like the problem is caused by them hooking there elbows around the pole ... get them to start putting it inside of the pole and i think that problem will be fixed