Excellent Athlete Beginning Petrov Model

[powerplant42]

I'm not too sure... I'm just gonna throw this out there; maybe some hip drills and no swings? Just to get more of a feel for getting off of the ground (not that she doesn't have one already). I don't know. Just a suggestion. Also, it could be that her top arm is bent and loose; I just noticed that in the video. There are plenty of ways to improve that. Good luck!

[fx]

It may have something to do with how far outside she takes off. If she's inconsistent with her takeoff mark, she may be taking off too far out once in awhile, making her "get peeled completely".

[Tim McMichael]

Very good athlete indeed. How old is she and what is her previous background?

She is 23 and was second in the NCAA heptathlon two years ago. I am also training her in the hep. She wanted to learn to pole vault mostly because there is a good chance that the women will be going to a decathlon between this Olympics and the next. The problem is that I am teaching her a model that is radically different from the one I used and know best. I am certain, however, that this is in her best interest. This is why I am sweating bullets, and asking for any help I can get. Imagine someone who can already score well over 6000 in the hep being able to vault over 15' the first day they go to a decathlon. I know it's a long shot, but I think it's one worth taking.

My next step will be to get her running faster from a longer run. I think she will start to cover the pole better as her grip goes up and the pole starts to break over more. As things stand right now, she can stiff pole 10' and has cleared 11'6" from that baby run we are currently using.

Tim,

She is very talented and can jump very high. The Petrov Model may be the way to go, but keep an open mind do not forget about Vigneron (if you have Mechanics of the Pole Vault read his responses), Joe and your technique. Maybe you could combine the best of both worlds develop the McPetrov Model . I personally think Vigneron was an excellent technician from what I have read, he was not extremely fast nor big and jumped 19’5â€Â

[Tim McMichael]

It may have something to do with how far outside she takes off. If she's inconsistent with her takeoff mark, she may be taking off too far out once in awhile, making her "get peeled completely".

Here is a question. I realize that she is taking off way too far outside, but I would much rather have that happening than taking off too far under. Ideally the pole should start bending just as her toe leaves the ground. Right now she is a couple of feet off the ground before the pole starts to load. I want her to keep the feel of a free takeoff, so I don't want to try to discourage what is happening right now. I am hoping that as we back her run up, and she begins to bring more speed this problem will self-correct.

Has anyone else had to deal with this, and do you guys have any solutions to this problem that will not lead her away from a free takeoff?

[master]

Hi Tim,

This young lady has a great start to the vault. I would guess her long jump experience contributes significantly to her high knee approach run, take of leg position and jump up at take off. I feel a little bit uncomfortable about offering you advice with you having so much more experience and knowledge than I do. That being said, I see one thing in this jump that could be important. Observe the position (fore and aft) of her top hand. From frame 7 in my slide show file (see note below) her hand emerges from the middle of her head. It then goes up and back instead of up and forward. By frame 19 it is completely behind her head. I teach the desired position at this point in the vault is for the hand to be just forward of the head. I show the kids what I mean by closing my fist (as if around a pole) and putting it against my forehead, then extending it straight up from there. She is losing several degrees of pole angle from vertical by having her hand back. Now move ahead to frame 22 where she leaves the ground. Her hand is still back. If her hand were forward where I described, the pole angle would be higher and the pole tip would likely just be hitting the back of the box. Instead, it hits at frame 26 and although she has a fantastic jump, the pole stutters as it is rotating forward. This means her body gets closer to the pole than I would like and that limits the effectiveness of her swing. Bottom line: I would have her focus on hand position (more forward and as tall as possible) at time of “toe offâ€Â

[master]

I realize that she is taking off way too far outside, but I would much rather have that happening than taking off too far under. Ideally the pole should start bending just as her toe leaves the ground. Right now she is a couple of feet off the ground before the pole starts to load.

I forgot to comment on this in my previous post. I think if her hands were forward as described, and she had a "strong" body at take off, you might not feel she is taking off too far outside. I totally agree you want to help her keep her comfort level of taking off out rather than under.

- master

[powerplant42]

Yeah, that's definitley something that you should work on after that becomes the major factor in her limits. Although, you might want to make sure that she runs her steps back the same way she runs them at the box. Just a thought.

[achtungpv]

Although, you might want to make sure that she runs her steps back the same way she runs them at the box.

Never run your steps back. It does not work. You're better off picking a spot at random and working out a start mark from that. Running through without taking off the ground (even faking a plant and takeoff) and actually running and vaulting are two completely different running actions in at least the last 6 steps, if not more. The best way to develop an approach is to build from a simple 2 step approach adding 10-12 "shoes" for every additional stride. It's much easier to progressively grow your approach out to 14-18 strides doing it this way since you're developing technique and maxing out your ability from 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, etc. strides along the way before moving back a stride.

On the same note, I hate running through also. You cannot accurately check your step unless you plant and vault. If you run through you are preparing to jump into the pit. Your last few steps will be completely different than if you vaulted. If you're gonna bother taking the first step, take the last and vault. If you have a well established approach you can take off first time down the runway every single time with no problems.

Sorry to get off topic.

[powerplant42]

Haha! Pretty big dilemma you got yourself there. Well, if she does run steps back, then it would be wise to make sure of consistency between that and the vault's run.

[souleman]

No need to run steps anywhere if you utilize the principles of DJ's chart. (I know, off topic....kinda). If I'm not mistaken though, Alan doesn't have any problems with the chart. I am still going to maintain that I didn't think she was too far out. In fact, with a shorter step from penult to takeoff, I thought she would have still been on. I'm glad that Master talked about take off hand position because I noticed that as well but figured that someone else would mention that as Master did. I don't know if it would be true to the Petrov model but at this point with her jumping, I'd like to see a little effort to get that right elbow on the inside of the pole rather than hugging it on the outside like all of us "straight polers"do. This will prep her for when the pole bends. (I hope you know what I mean on this one). Once again you've got a good one there. Stick with the model as close as you can and the results will be astounding. Later.Mike

[Tim McMichael]

I totally agree about her arm position. That is going to be the focus of our next practice. Thanks for pointing it out. Its amazing what you can miss even when you are looking right at it.

[baggettpv]

Tim,
Keep following your perceptions of the model and continue the concept of the straight pole jump. My advice is to develop a significant plan for this girl to make a continuous improvement on her performance. Good luck. She can be good.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC