Striding Out at Takeoff

This is a forum to discuss advanced pole vaulting techniques. If you are in high school you should probably not be posting or replying to topics here, but do read and learn.
burnhamj
PV Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:54 pm
Expertise: Current Collegiate Vaulter
Lifetime Best: 14'6"
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Sergey Bubka

Striding Out at Takeoff

Unread postby burnhamj » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:48 pm

I have been struggling for almost two years with my last step at takeoff. As I approach the box on my last two steps, my strides increase in length which lowers my center of gravity at plant position and inhibits my jump at takeoff. This causes me to stall out of the pole and have no chance of taking the jump up. However, when I keep my foot underneath me, I have great jumps, and the swing comes very easily!

Does anyone have any advice/ tips/ drills that can help me work on it? I consciously think about it on every jump but still manage to do stride out on about every other jump. Thank you for your help!
Last edited by burnhamj on Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Run Tall, Hit Tall

grandevaulter
PV Pro
Posts: 428
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:49 pm
Expertise: Three year highschool vaulter 1978-80. Now coaching highschoolers and competing in masters.
Lifetime Best: 11'
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Timothy Mack
Location: South West, MI

Re: Striding Out at Takeoff

Unread postby grandevaulter » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:53 pm

I would call this an intermediate topic. Post some videos and all of the pertinent information such as length of approach, pole length/weight/flex and grip height.

burnhamj
PV Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:54 pm
Expertise: Current Collegiate Vaulter
Lifetime Best: 14'6"
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Sergey Bubka

Re: Striding Out at Takeoff

Unread postby burnhamj » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:03 am

The numbers of my jumps are irrelevant to my question. The numbers vary from different runways to different poles, but are all caused by the same thing. I know that my extended strides are what is causing my jump to stall. I was simply looking for drills or advice on how to fix it. I found a similar topic in the intermediate forum, however it did not answer the question as well as I would have liked. That is why I posted in the Advanced forum. Thank you for your help though!
Run Tall, Hit Tall

User avatar
KirkB
PV Maniac
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:05 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter; Former Elite Vaulter; Former Coach; Fan
Lifetime Best: 5.34
Favorite Vaulter: Thiago da Silva
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Striding Out at Takeoff

Unread postby KirkB » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:36 am

burnhamj wrote:The numbers of my jumps are irrelevant to my question.

GV's suggestion is a good one. We need to see your metrics; and we need to see your vids.

So far - based on your self-diagnosis - we understand that you're overstriding on the penultimate "on about every other jump".

We (GV, myself, and others with a good record of coaching experience) are here to help you, so trust us when we ask for vids, or ask for metrics. We could give you random advice (not any solid advice), but it may not be worth much. So I will pass due to insufficient information, until you provide vids and metrics.

It would be far more valuable for you to receive sound advice, based on a more thorough analysis of your issues. Since we can't stand beside the track and watch what you're doing, vids (with associated metrics) are the next best thing.

See this sticky thread for getting the best advice on PVP: http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=11345

You have some good things going for you ... based on what you say:
burnhamj wrote: ... when I keep my foot underneath me, I have great jumps, and the swing comes very easily!

... since you have apparently experienced what a good jump feels like! :yes:

So what you're asking us is how you can CONSISTENTLY get a good takeoff, which results in a good swing (and thus a high clearance). Is that true? :confused:

We don't have enough info to understand your flaw yet, and we can't read your mind. Perhaps we can get a better idea once you post 2 vids of yourself - one with what you consider a GOOD takeoff; and the other with what you consider a BAD takeoff.

I don't know much but I do know this much: Your inconsistency in your penultimate step is the result of something that you're doing just prior to that. That would include your plant and your run.

Don't even bother to try to explain what you're doing during your plant. Trust me, there's so many ways to try to explain this in words, that it's impossible to clearly state what your plant REALLY looks like. You could TRY to explain how it FEELS, but I doubt that you can explain how it LOOKS. (Once we see how it LOOKS, we may ask you how it FEELS.) So trust us - just show us an example of a GOOD plant and an example of a BAD plant (both in the same day on the same pole; using the same grip over the same height of bungy or bar). Then we'll have much more to go on when we give you any advice.

Also, videotape your ENTIRE run. Not just a clip once you're halfway down the runway. We need to see and understand the FULL PICTURE, so that we can give you the best possible advice.

If you've been struggling with this for TWO YEARS, then I would think that you would be open to posting your vid, so that we can REALY, REALY help you, rather than just giving you superficial advice. :idea:

Enough said. :confused:

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

burnhamj
PV Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:54 pm
Expertise: Current Collegiate Vaulter
Lifetime Best: 14'6"
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Sergey Bubka

Re: Striding Out at Takeoff

Unread postby burnhamj » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:58 pm

I apologize if I came off snooty in my first post! :D I was hesitant to post video because what I have is not very good. Hopefully this helps.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/anw7za64ldwu ... 9E_qOMTdNa

These videos are not from the same day but from about a week apart. I am running from 5 lefts, holding about 13' 7" on a 14' 6" 145lb Carbon fx pole in both videos. I am 5' 11" in height and weigh about 140lbs. The bar is set at 13' 3" in one video and 13' 7" in the other (don't quite remember which one). These videos are from about 6 months ago, but they are all that I have. :(

I think am doing something in my runway beforehand which is causing inconsistancy in my last step, kinda what KirkB was talking about. I heel strike very badly and am not able to take the jump up. In my "good" video (very bad top end because I was so focused on my step) my step was a little better (not much, but manageable) and I was able to rotate the pole much faster. I have made a little bit of progress since then and now when I jump, I either stall out out because I can't rotate the pole, or I have one of my best jumps.

Please let me know what you think! I very much value your opinion and can't thank you enough for your help!
Run Tall, Hit Tall

User avatar
KirkB
PV Maniac
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:05 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter; Former Elite Vaulter; Former Coach; Fan
Lifetime Best: 5.34
Favorite Vaulter: Thiago da Silva
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Striding Out at Takeoff

Unread postby KirkB » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:36 pm

You realize that your pole starts to bend well before liftoff?

It would be very hard to jump up when the pole picks you off like that.

Your pole carry could be steadier. You have a habit (both vids) of bobbing the pole up and down (with both arms) as you run. So when it's time to plant, you're not holding the pole steady enough to have any consistency in your plant.

Re overstriding, or inconsistency in your run, due to the poor quality of the vid (too far away) I can't differentiate between what you're doing any better or worse from one jump to the next.

I think if you control the bobbing of your pole, you might run more consistently. But I don't think the bobbing of the pole is your only flaw. It's hard to tell.

Maybe someone else can comment on that.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

grandevaulter
PV Pro
Posts: 428
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:49 pm
Expertise: Three year highschool vaulter 1978-80. Now coaching highschoolers and competing in masters.
Lifetime Best: 11'
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Timothy Mack
Location: South West, MI

Re: Striding Out at Takeoff

Unread postby grandevaulter » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:41 pm

burnhamj wrote: I heel strike very badly and am not able to take the jump up.

Everyone heel strikes on their take off step, don't worry about that right now.

Your video resolution is very poor and I can't see what is going on.

It seems to me that you should be at least 7 lefts for the height and pole that you are using. There a couple of reasons that jumpers stride out in the last steps. One is caused the plant starting too early or lack of synchronization between the arms and feet.

Six step plant drills will help with this. Other ways to improve your stride cadence is to perform 20/20s, straight leg claws, and ostrich steps. Six of each, three times a week minimum. After a week of these drills start doing full 7 left approaches on the track, (working to elevate on your take off) 10 of these at four times a week, you should have no reason to stride out on your last steps if your plant is synchronized and you achieve a smooth plant. Have someone help your measure where your take off step, measure this back from your take off point back to the pit. Usually when a jumper thinks of elevating at take off they go a long way toward not being under.

burnhamj wrote:I apologize if I came off snooty in my first post!

It takes more snootyness than that to offend most here :devil:

It looks like you are at GVSU.

burnhamj
PV Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:54 pm
Expertise: Current Collegiate Vaulter
Lifetime Best: 14'6"
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Sergey Bubka

Re: Striding Out at Takeoff

Unread postby burnhamj » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:01 am

Thank you for your advice!

Other ways to improve your stride cadence is to perform 20/20s, straight leg claws, and ostrich steps

I used to do a lot of these drills in high school and have gotten away from them in college. I am definitely going to start doing them again on my own sometime outside of practice!

It looks like you are at GVSU

Yes, I jump for GVSU and am a sophomore this year!

You realize that your pole starts to bend well before liftoff?
It would be very hard to jump up when the pole picks you off like that.

Yes, I agree. I have always been coached with the aim of free takeoff. I think that my under step is a product of my stride as well which further inhibits my jump.

Your pole carry could be steadier. You have a habit (both vids) of bobbing the pole up and down (with both arms) as you run. So when it's time to plant, you're not holding the pole steady enough to have any consistency in your plant.

I do not quite understand how my pole carry affects my plant if you would like to explain a little more? I have always been taught to hold the pole high (for better pole drop) and relax my upper body to what feels comfortable in order to make run more fluid. I will try it out though, keeping my hands more steady and just allowing my arms to bounce.

At my next jump practice on Thursday, I think I am going to try to focus on quick hands, quick feet in order to help get my step down. Along with a bigger jump vertically as opposed to horizontally. That should also force my feet to stay underneath myself.
Run Tall, Hit Tall

coachstark
PV Dweeb
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:21 pm
Expertise: College Coach/ All- American Vaulter
Lifetime Best: 5.13m
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Bubka
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Striding Out at Takeoff

Unread postby coachstark » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:17 pm

Both gents bring up excellent points above..... one simple question that hasn't been asked is, do you count your steps during your approach run?

From the videos, it doesn't look like you start to drop the pole consistently at the same spot. The pole drop tempo should increase as your approach run increases. So, if you do count your steps, make sure you start to move your hands at the same point each attempt. I coach the three C's.... Consistent, Confident and Comfortable.... try to develop these as you do 100s of approach runs.

Depth perception is not the vaulters friend as you approach the pit. Each of my vaulters struggles with their safety instinct that they need to be closer to the mat when taking off. If you are Consistent, Confident and Comfortable with your approach run, vision is less of an importance and that safety instinct with your depth perception causing you to reach closer to the box starts to become eliminated.

In addition to what GV mentioned above, another drill that seems to help with your approach run and limit you to reach on your pen would be to practice with mini hurdles. This makes sure you don't cheat yourself on your knee drive during your run with a neutral posture and your feet contacting underneath your hips. If you do cheat yourself on your run, its most likely that you will clip the hurdles. The youtube clip below should bring good guidance on some of the drills mentioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=814aFoXRoGI

Hope this helps and best of luck this season! Fly high!

burnhamj
PV Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:54 pm
Expertise: Current Collegiate Vaulter
Lifetime Best: 14'6"
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Sergey Bubka

Re: Striding Out at Takeoff

Unread postby burnhamj » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:29 pm

coachstark wrote:one simple question that hasn't been asked is, do you count your steps during your approach run?

I do count down on my lefts as I approach the box and am usually pretty consistent about that. However, obviously I need to work on that so that it doesn't happen any more in a meet!

coachstark wrote:I coach the three C's.... Consistent, Confident and Comfortable.... try to develop these as you do 100s of approach runs.

I really like this mental approach to the pole vault and I will try to incorporate that into my own mindset! Thinking back on my best jumps, I was always confident in my ability and comfortable with the pole/ grip I was on.

The video is very helpful as well! I will definitely be working on those! Thank you for the tips!
Run Tall, Hit Tall

grandevaulter
PV Pro
Posts: 428
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:49 pm
Expertise: Three year highschool vaulter 1978-80. Now coaching highschoolers and competing in masters.
Lifetime Best: 11'
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Timothy Mack
Location: South West, MI

Re: Striding Out at Takeoff

Unread postby grandevaulter » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:43 pm

coachstark wrote:do you count your steps during your approach run?

Why? :eek:

coachstark wrote: So, if you do count your steps, make sure you start to move your hands at the same point each attempt.

When? :dazed:

coachstark wrote:Depth perception is not the vaulters friend as you approach the pit. Each of my vaulters struggles with their safety instinct that they need to be closer to the mat when taking off. If you are Consistent, Confident and Comfortable with your approach run, vision is less of an importance and that safety instinct with your depth perception causing you to reach closer to the box starts to become eliminated.

Burnham, do not read the above, I repeat, "Do not read it". There is a blind girl in Texas that is a good jumper. If you do the drills that I prescribe, you can do this blind folded and hit your take off mark.

The University of Greece vid is O.K. with the exception of the angle (high) of the pole carry during most of the basic drills. The run, plant and jump drill is one move short of completing what it is intended for. "JUMP UP". The guinea pig make a week jump with her head down, drops the right leg and goes limp.

On counting steps. " The development of both technique and skill, progresses from a cognitive mode in beginners, through what is termed an associative stage, to an automatic mode with skilled performers. So while beginners have to think about each element of the movement pattern they are attempting to master, the elite performer can concentrate on just doing it without conscious thought. Indeed at this level, conscious thought will get in the way of perfect performance" (excerpt from; "From beginner to Bubka and Isinbayeva too! Second addition Alan G. Launder & John Gormley.

Burnham, there are a few separate chapters (BTB2) on the approach and a couple chapters on the plant for different levels. You are and should be to the "automatic mode" at this point. No need to count steps. I'd be glad to meet with you and go over proven and effective drills that were used by Bubka and many of the other Russian vaulters. 6 step plant drill with exact movements, and a 10 / 6 drill on changing increasing the frequency of your strides.

User avatar
KirkB
PV Maniac
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:05 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter; Former Elite Vaulter; Former Coach; Fan
Lifetime Best: 5.34
Favorite Vaulter: Thiago da Silva
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Striding Out at Takeoff

Unread postby KirkB » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:33 pm

I will try to answer your questions; then Coach Stark's comments; then GV's comments in probably 3 separate replies. Here goes ... please bear with me ...

burnhamj wrote:
KirkB wrote: You realize that your pole starts to bend well before liftoff?
It would be very hard to jump up when the pole picks you off like that.

Yes, I agree. I have always been coached with the aim of free takeoff. I think that my under step is a product of my stride as well which further inhibits my jump.

Cool!

By recognizing the problem, you're more than halfway there in solving it. :yes:

KirkB wrote: Your pole carry could be steadier. You have a habit (both vids) of bobbing the pole up and down (with both arms) as you run. So when it's time to plant, you're not holding the pole steady enough to have any consistency in your plant.
burnhamj wrote: I do not quite understand how my pole carry affects my plant if you would like to explain a little more?


Sure ...

Trust me, your run affects your pole carry; your pole carry affects your plant, your plant affects your takeoff; your takeoff affects your swing; your swing affects your inversion; etc; etc. It all starts from your first step down the runway. One flaw in ANY of the early parts of the vault will cause flaws "downstream" from the first flaw. (By "downstream", I mean in time sequence, as in each subsequent part of the vault is downstream from all the prior parts - they are in consecutive time order (with one part melding into the next - not disparate parts).

burnhamj wrote: I have always been taught to hold the pole high (for better pole drop) and relax my upper body to what feels comfortable in order to make run more fluid. I will try it out though, keeping my hands more steady and just allowing my arms to bounce.

Holding the pole high and relaxing the upper body are good things ... to make the run more fluid (as you say).

I think you've answered your own question here - it's better to keep your hands steady but your arms and shoulders relaxed.

It's not that easy, but if you're aware of this potential flaw (and I see that you are), then you will be keeping your pole steadier by absorbing the "excessive bounce" that I see in your arms and shoulders, so that it doesn't affect (as much) the steadiness of your hands (and thus the pole). This is all with the aim of keeping the plant STEADIER so that your run/plant/takeoff-point is more consistent (to avoid the over-stretching that you originally asked us about).

burnhamj wrote: At my next jump practice on Thursday, I think I am going to try to focus on quick hands, quick feet in order to help get my step down. Along with a bigger jump vertically as opposed to horizontally. That should also force my feet to stay underneath myself.

Correct on all points. You're a very good listener - much better than my first impression of you - based on your original snotty reply to GV (which he forgave you for). :D

You got it!

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!


Return to “Pole Vault - Advanced Technique”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests