Charlie's Press Support Plant - Revisited

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KirkB
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Charlie's Press Support Plant - Revisited

Unread postby KirkB » Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:23 pm

In another thread today (in the International forum about Isi: http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=52794), PVStudent asked Charlie about his "press support plant".

I found a couple of old references to it:

http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=16589&p=120343&hilit=press+plant+charlie#p120343

and http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=17702&p=141458&hilit=press+plant+charlie#p141458

Charlie, can you explain the advantages of your so-called "press support plant" over traditional Petrov Model technique? :confused:

Thanks.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

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Re: Charlie's Press Support Plant - Revisited

Unread postby charlie » Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:19 pm

If you take BOTH arms and extend them up (the pad of both hand PRESS UP) and CONTINUE to extend them up as the pole makes contact with the box, you will get the pole to vertical faster than anything else you can do. THEN IF YOU HAVE GUTS ENOUGH TO INVERT EARLY WITH THE POLE STILL BENT, YOU WILL GET SHOT UP OFF THE POLE! I use 4 fingers when I explain my technique that I teach EVERYBODY(1 EARLY PLANT-- 2 EARLY PRESS-- 3 EARLY UP, notice I didn't say BACK and 4 EARLY OFF!!!!!

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Re: Charlie's Press Support Plant - Revisited

Unread postby PVstudent » Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:04 pm

charlie wrote: by charlie » Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:19 pm
If you take BOTH arms and extend them up (the pad of both hand PRESS UP) and CONTINUE to extend them up as the pole makes contact with the box, you will get the pole to vertical faster than anything else you can do.


I understand and agree with this statement but find that it is simply standard well known and understood basic technique as espoused in the Petrov- Bubka Technical Model.

Whether inversion can occur in time to coincide with the commencement of pole recoil by continuing to press upwards following take off is the nub of the issue.

charlie wrote:THEN IF YOU HAVE GUTS ENOUGH TO INVERT EARLY WITH THE POLE STILL BENT, YOU WILL GET SHOT UP OFF THE POLE!
.

This statement is disturbing in that it implies that early inversion is highly fear / anxiety provoking when the "Press Plant" into the take-off is used.

Because Charlie is extremely successful as a coach, I would like to be referred by him to some video, preferably of his vaulters or other vaulters demonstrating exemplar technical performance, of this claimed effective, but fear invoking technical model of "Press Plant Take-off into early inversion (Guts required!).

The description "the pads of both hands PRESS UP" is open to considerable variation in interpretation.
Cylindrical grip hand & wrist orientation.jpg
Cylindrical grip hand & wrist orientation.jpg (96.47 KiB) Viewed 8326 times


The relationship of "cylindrical grips" to pole tube diameter, hand finger size, and orientation of the hand and wrists especially of the lower grip hand to the longitudinal axis of the pole will be determinants of the force directed vertically upwards. The pole ground angle on pole impacting the rear wall of the planting box dramatically influences grip hands and wrist angles relative to the pole longitudinal axis and the resultant force magnitude and direction exerted by the vaulter acting on the pole.

Image 2 reveals that the "Hand Pads" through which "upward pressure" is being exerted by proponents of Charlie's technique are likely to position their lower grip elbow almost directly below the hand grip. This could possibly give rise to early hip flexing and hence "Guts required" to invert in time to fully exploit the recoil propulsion from the pole.

Until I see some evidence of vaulters using Charlie's Press Plant Method I am still unclear and hence unable to fully understand his claims. I am left to merely speculate about its advantages or disadvantages.

Please refer myself and others to video exemplar vaults employing the "Charlie Press Plant Method."
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Re: Charlie's Press Support Plant - Revisited

Unread postby KirkB » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:43 pm

PVstudent wrote:
charlie wrote: by charlie » Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:19 pm
If you take BOTH arms and extend them up (the pad of both hand PRESS UP) and CONTINUE to extend them up as the pole makes contact with the box, you will get the pole to vertical faster than anything else you can do.

Whether inversion can occur in time to coincide with the commencement of pole recoil by continuing to press upwards following take off is the nub of the issue.

I agree. But I look at this from another perspective.

Charlie, it would be helpful (especially by video review, but also by stating intent) to explain the separation of PLANT from TAKEOFF and SWING; and also whether a free takeoff is strived for. You call your technique the "Press Support Plant", so does this mean that it's only within the PLANT phase? With a free takeoff, I would agree with you and PVStudent that this is excellent technique to strive for. But if you're "under", then I would not solve this by continuing to press up AFTER the plant (i.e. during TAKEOFF) with both hands.

As PVStudent suggests, the continuance of the pads of both hands pressing up AFTER the plant (i.e. during the TAKEOFF and SWING would imply that the bottom elbow might be too low (not far enough to the side), which in turn would cause too much follow-thru pressure being applied through the bottom arm (which in turn would slow down the swing). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is what you're saying, Charlie, which you're implying is a key advantage to your technique. I actually think that this is inferior technique, but I know I won't change your mind on this, because you've apparently been so successful with it over your many years of coaching.

PVstudent wrote:
charlie wrote:THEN IF YOU HAVE GUTS ENOUGH TO INVERT EARLY WITH THE POLE STILL BENT, YOU WILL GET SHOT UP OFF THE POLE!

This statement is disturbing in that it implies that early inversion is highly fear / anxiety provoking when the "Press Plant" into the take-off is used.

Charlie, I think this second main point made by you is quite independent of the "Press Support Plant". Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you have ANY plant/takeoff/swing technique and still need to have "GUTS" to "INVERT EARLY WITH THE POLE STILL BENT"? :confused:

My take on inverting early happens to be the same as yours, Charlie. It's good technique to strive for. :yes:

But the way I think of it is agnostic to what happens between the plant and the swing. Essentially, you need to have a technique (yes, any technique will do!) that will consistently land you in the PLZ. This implies keeping the standards at 80 (because you likely won't reach the center of the PLZ and CLEAR THE BAR without your standards at 80).

Along with your technique and standards at 80, you need the right run, grip, and pole flex for this to work 100% of the time. It may take "nerves of steel" ("guts") at first (to become comfortable with inverting and extending on a bent pole), but if you're consistently landing in the PLZ this way, then the fear of stalling out goes away through repetition (and gymnastics drills).

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!


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