Shoulder Drop Technique

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TolbertVault
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Shoulder Drop Technique

Unread postby TolbertVault » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:29 pm

For as long as I can remember, iv never been able to keep my head down when I invert
The exception being when I jump at 15' and above
My swing gets cut off and I tend to flag
How can I get my head and shoulders to drop and stay that way?

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Re: Shoulder Drop Technique

Unread postby KirkB » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:13 pm

Set the bar at 15 feet or higher. :)

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Re: Shoulder Drop Technique

Unread postby TolbertVault » Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:39 pm

That is a good point
However, an issue I didn't include was that of pole length I suppose
When I jump at a height less than a foot longer than the pole I use, I flag out and don't complete the swing
I just don't know how to do it consistently if the bar isn't way higher than it needs to be

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Re: Shoulder Drop Technique

Unread postby KirkB » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:57 pm

I don't know why pole length or bar height affects your technique. This sounds like a psychological problem to me. If you can post some vids, then it might be easier to understand.

One of the keys to good technique is to ALWAYS jump with your same (good) technique, no matter what the bar height or grip or flex or pole length. This is what gives you consistency, and the ability to HAVE THE CONFIDENCE to execute your BEST technique on every jump (no matter what the conditions or the pole/grip/bar variables) depends on this consistency AND YOUR CONFIDENCE THAT YOUR TECHNIQUE WILL BE THE SAME AS YOUR OTHER GOOD JUMPS.

BTW, you did see the :) in my last post, didn't you? What I was trying to suggest (partly in jest, but also partly quite seriously) was that you should think of every jump as being a "proper technique" jump, where you MUST execute your BEST technique - even if the bar is low.

Is it possible that you're looking at the bar on your lower heights. The answer to that :) is to NOT look at the bar - that will cause you to flag out! :)

Kirk
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Re: Shoulder Drop Technique

Unread postby TolbertVault » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:07 pm

I'm sorry, I did see the :)
And I think you're right about me looking at the bar. I tried keeping my head up higher during the plant, and it seems to help

Il try to get a few videos this week of my jumps. I do think you're right about it being a mental thing. I know it's different for everyone, but do you have and suggestions for getting past the mental block?

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Re: Shoulder Drop Technique

Unread postby KirkB » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:07 am

TolbertVault wrote: ... I do think you're right about it being a mental thing. I know it's different for everyone, but do you have and suggestions for getting past the mental block?

My advice re getting past your mental blocks is by no means the ONLY way to go, and maybe not even the BEST advice. It's just how I would have handled it when I was vaulting. Your milage will vary for the exact reason you stated - it's different for everyone, depending on their aspirations, thought process, you name it. I would be interested in hearing how other coaches and vaulter have handeled simlar situations.

Here's what I would have done ...

1. Make the decision that you want to be the best you can be - to vault the highest you can vault. Decide that that's your #1 priority. This means that any other motivations take a lower priority.
2. Recognize that the gallop at the start of your runup is a BAD habit, and not good technique. After all, it's not anything that any other vaulters do (I'm sure there's a few exceptions, even with elites, so don't flame me about this point). Tell yourself that your'e going to fix it, and tell yourself why. For the why, see #1.
3. Ask your coach and vaulting buddies for help. Tell them you want to get rid of the bad habit of the gallop. Tell them why. The why is that it's causing you to lose speed at the start of your run, which results in a slower speed on takeoff. Takeoff speed MUST be optimized, so you MUST fix this. You also MUST hit your target takeoff, and galloping causes inconsistency in hitting it. By declaring this to your buddies and your coach, they will support you and help you. In return, you will become committed to fixing this.
4. Now that you've set yourself up for success, and declared it publicly, then as the shoe manufacturer says, "just do it".

Declaring your intentions in this public way has to do with "commitment" and "affirmation". From a psychological standpoint, you stand a much better chance of success if you've committed or affirmed what you intend to do. Not just to others, but especially to yourself. In layman's terms, this is "mind over matter". It's taking the control of the actions your body makes, and giving them back to your brain, and not letting your body "misbehave" according to it's current habits. It's making YOU responsible for them, rather than shrugging off the bad habit (like galloping) as just something that you have no control over (so in despair, why even try).

I don't know if that type of logic rings a bell with you, but if it does, then try it. If your thought process doesn't work this way, then devise some alternate way of getting rid of your habit. Some vaulters (myself included) are self-motivated. Others need their coach to push them in the right direction. Either way is OK, but obviously a combo of the 2 is best.

The fact that you're asking for help on PVP is already a very good step in the right direction, because you're being humble by asking for help. That makes us want to help you, so please feel the power of us supporting you in your quest. This should increase your self confidence, which you need to increase continually.

And this advice is not just for the bad habit of galloping. It transcends to almost every type of training you do.

Good luck!

I have left the issue of your head position on takeoff (or during the plant) having an affect on your head position during your extension to another post (maybe someone else can respond to that one). It's a totally different topic than the one I just reponded to.

Kirk
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Re: Shoulder Drop Technique

Unread postby TolbertVault » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:59 am

That actually is extremely helpful for me

Setting my drive and determination is a must, and telling myself that I will improve somehow makes me feel more confident on the runway



Thank you very much for the help Kirk

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Re: Shoulder Drop Technique

Unread postby vquestpvc » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:51 am

This always seems to open a can of worms, but here goes anyway. Part of the problem I see in not getting the shoulders to drop is where the eyes are focused. At the point where the hips have "broken" and the vaulter "covers" the pole, the eyes should be focused on the top hand. By focusing on the top hand one will be able to see where the body is positioned relative to the pole and the sequence of what needs to follow next; thrust, pull, push. More importantly, one does not have to "think" they need to put the head back to get the shoulders to drop which can (and will in the wrong circumstances) cause one to possibly lose a sense of equilibrium creating a dangerous situation. Now why is it gymnasts are considered a good pool of possible vaulters? For many reasons I'm sure, but throughout gymnastic training one is taught eye focus for various skills; certainly for a back walkover on a balance beam. The same eye focus should be taught in the pole vault. Hey, if one is already focusing on the cross bar, why not focus more on clearing higher heights through better technique; and safely.

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Re: Shoulder Drop Technique

Unread postby PVDaddy » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:31 pm

I think you are on to something on this very difficult to conquer subject. May I suggest to look at the Bottom hand Instead? I believe this puts the head in a more correct position and is a better reference point to check the line of the body to the pole (Another very good point you make) ?
Every jot and every tittle adds up to more than just a little.

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Re: Shoulder Drop Technique

Unread postby PVDaddy » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:48 pm

Vquestpc take a look at this Picture of Bubka setting World Record that i posted under visual cues. Note were he is Looking? I brought this up on here A while back but was mocked by a few stuck in the mud, KNow everything, old , not willing to advance teachers of the Sport. viewtopic.php?f=38&t=28056&start=12#p172417 Keep moving forward! :yes:
Every jot and every tittle adds up to more than just a little.

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Re: Shoulder Drop Technique

Unread postby PVDaddy » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:49 pm

You have to click the picture to see "were" Bubka is looking.
Every jot and every tittle adds up to more than just a little.

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Re: Shoulder Drop Technique

Unread postby altius » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:52 pm

"Know everything, old , not willing to advance teachers of the Sport." Some folk - like you for example - dont know enough to know how little they know - you have lots of information - no wisdom. As I continually ask - why don't you show us how well you can teach this event instead of just talking about it. But while talk is cheap, action takes effort so I doubt we are going to see that.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden


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