Trouble penetrating when swinging

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dougomania
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Trouble penetrating when swinging

Unread postby dougomania » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:37 pm

My goal is to try to hold higher on the pole.

When I do a simple take off (from 3 strides; 6 steps) on a 15' 170 holding 20cm from the top I have no trouble moving the pole. However, when I try to swing the pole stops and I do not have safe penetration. I am fine on the 15'165 and the penetration is deep. If I hold 1.5 hands down on the 15'170 I can move it fine and swing and jump alright but I know I can do better.

suggestions? Perhpas I can upload some vidoes.

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Re: Trouble penetrating when swinging

Unread postby KYLE ELLIS » Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:15 pm

Your grip on a bending pole doesn't work like on a straight pole. Once you find the right grip on a bending pole it shouldn't really change more than an inch. The maximum your grip should move up from the 165 to the 170 is about 2.5-3 inches. It matters to a quarter inch where your grip.
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Re: Trouble penetrating when swinging

Unread postby VaultPurple » Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:35 pm

My guess would be you do not have a powerful swing.

Basic physics here:

If you just plant a pole and ride it in without swinging up your bodies center of mass stays down below your hands so your potential energy (how high you are) stays low, but your kinetic energy (how fast and deep into the pit you are going) stays high. When you invert you are raising your center of mass and therefore increasing your potential energy (how high you are) and decreasing your kinetic energy (how fast and deep you are going into the pit). The total sum of kinetic and potential energy are always going to be remotely the same unless you add more energy to the system. So if swinging up on a pole causes you to not go as deep as when you are just plating the pole and riding it in, it means your swing is not adding enough energy into the vault to keep the pole moving deep into the pit.

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Re: Trouble penetrating when swinging

Unread postby dougomania » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:24 am

KYLE ELLIS wrote:Your grip on a bending pole doesn't work like on a straight pole. Once you find the right grip on a bending pole it shouldn't really change more than an inch. The maximum your grip should move up from the 165 to the 170 is about 2.5-3 inches. It matters to a quargrier inch where your grip.


I don't change my grip much between the 165 to 170. It is the same grip and I can penetrate fine without swinging for both. If I were to lower my grip on the 170 I can swing and penetrate fine. At all both a lower and higher grip on the 165 I can penetrate fine with swinging and without. The 165 is too small though.

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Re: Trouble penetrating when swinging

Unread postby dougomania » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:35 am

VaultPurple wrote:My guess would be you do not have a powerful swing.

Basic physics here:

If you just plant a pole and ride it in without swinging up your bodies center of mass stays down below your hands so your potential energy (how high you are) stays low, but your kinetic energy (how fast and deep into the pit you are going) stays high. When you invert you are raising your center of mass and therefore increasing your potential energy (how high you are) and decreasing your kinetic energy (how fast and deep you are going into the pit). The total sum of kinetic and potential energy are always going to be remotely the same unless you add more energy to the system. So if swinging up on a pole causes you to not go as deep as when you are just plating the pole and riding it in, it means your swing is not adding enough energy into the vault to keep the pole moving deep into the pit.


That makes sense. How do I make sure I'm adding more energy with the swing.

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Re: Trouble penetrating when swinging

Unread postby CoachEric » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:02 pm

It sounds like you are almost definitely pulling in some way when you swing. Since you are able to move the pole when you don't swing, it suggests that your takeoff is on and you are pushing the pole pretty well off the ground.

Watch your video, and look to see if your left elbow is dropping at all (either downward or inward) as your hips start to rise. This is causing the pole to unbend prematurely, it kills the energy of the swing, and it stops the rotation of the pole towards the back of the pit.

Next time you vault, think about your left hand continuing to rise up and over the top of your head post-takeoff. Then, immediately after hitting that "elastic" postion, punch your left hand straight up (not out) towards vertical. This will accelerate your swing and continue to load the pole as it rotates.

Watch Bubka, and look for that "up pressure." Brad Walker does a pretty good job of this as well.

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Re: Trouble penetrating when swinging

Unread postby Barto » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:28 pm

You should have MORE penetration when you swing than when you don't. Think of keeping pressure on the pole while you swing. Most vaulters incorrectly learn to swing by letting pressure off the pole and getting sucked under it.
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