Take-Off and Reverse-C Suggestions?

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flyingfish12
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Take-Off and Reverse-C Suggestions?

Unread postby flyingfish12 » Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:10 pm

Hi Pole Vault Power Community -

I am a 19 year old, 5’9” female (3.65m pr) beginning my 3rd year pole vaulting. I train independently (I am not on a team) so look to as many sources as I can to learn new things.

After watching Eliza McCartney this summer at the Olympics I began studying her plant and reverse-C. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYowVHftf4U I think I can do this if I could figure out how she gets her trail leg back so far. Is she pushing it back or is that flexibility? Are there drills I could be doing in my backyard that can help me get there? My club coach suggested I find a high bar but there are none within distance without a car unless I join a gym which I cannot afford right now.

My main question is, on her reverse-C, how is she getting her body so “loaded”? What are some training drills or exercises I can do to get me there? And then when I have the opportunity to be vaulting with a pole and pit, what would you suggest I focus on as I take off to get my body in that position?

Thank you for any suggestions!

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KirkB
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Re: Take-Off and Reverse-C Suggestions?

Unread postby KirkB » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:34 pm

flyingfish12 wrote:Is she pushing it back or is that flexibility? Are there drills I could be doing in my backyard that can help me get there?

Both. Check out my series of posts, starting here: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=15483&hilit=bryde+bend

In particular, read my Post #13.

Once you read that thread of posts, search for additional posts that I've made since 2008 re the "Bryde Bend".

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

flyingfish12
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Re: Take-Off and Reverse-C Suggestions?

Unread postby flyingfish12 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:06 am

Thank you Kirk.

I read your posts. In chapter 13 you said "This Jump to a Split was the most critical part of my technique" so I am feeling like I am focusing in the right area!

I went up to the playground this summer to practice my penultimate step by running layups but found I was checking my jump step like a long jump and it wasn't right. So I have been working on jumping off the ball of my foot, which is definitely a learned technique. When I watch Eliza in the video she looks like she comes off her toes at the take-off, there is no "long jump" in that at all, which is what you are saying as well.

I have bent my left arm at the plant since I first started and that is a hard habit to break, I really have to focus on it. But then also concentrating on keeping my leg back and doing what you are calling a "pause" - it all gets a little overwhelming and hard to put together with the right timing.

Can you tell me, what drills or exercises did you do to practice these elements of the swing away from the pit? Since my pit time is limited I want to find as many exercises I can that mimic the take-off and, as you call it, the "jump to the split".

Thank you again for your response!

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KirkB
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Re: Take-Off and Reverse-C Suggestions?

Unread postby KirkB » Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:14 pm

flyingfish12 wrote: So I have been working on jumping off the ball of my foot, which is definitely a learned technique. When I watch Eliza in the video she looks like she comes off her toes at the take-off ...

Jumping off the ball of your foot is correct. It might appear that Eliza "comes off her toes", but that's impossible, unless you're a ballerina! :)

The main point in jumping off the ball of your foot is to not be jumping off your heel (it's shouldn't be a heel-toe takeoff). As you know, taking off with your heel down would be a braking action.

flyingfish12 wrote: I have bent my left arm at the plant since I first started and that is a hard habit to break, I really have to focus on it.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by a "bent left arm" - assuming you're right-handed. I'm certainly not recommending that you keep it straight. It should just be used to reach up (for the highest plant possible), and then not do much with it at all. A vid of you in action would help, so I could see what you're doing with your arms.

flyingfish12 wrote: But then also concentrating on keeping my leg back and doing what you are calling a "pause" - it all gets a little overwhelming and hard to put together with the right timing.

It's not easy, and definitely not easy to learn on the pole. I learned this technique on a highbar, but a chinning bar or rings will do. One error I made on most vaults (not on my PR vaults) was to pause too long. You will see posts of that on PVP. But for now, a slight pause for you would be OK.

flyingfish12 wrote: what drills or exercises did you do to practice these elements of the swing away from the pit?

Search for "kirk highbar drill". Be sure there's no space between "high" and "bar". Those posts describe how to learn to swing your trail leg - like Eliza.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

flyingfish12
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Re: Take-Off and Reverse-C Suggestions?

Unread postby flyingfish12 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:22 pm

Hi Kirk,

My "bent left arm" is the bad kind, where the arm is bent to speed up the swing to inversion.

So I am talking about breaking that entire habit (a combination of throwing my head back and rushing to inversion by bending the left arm in). It’s not good. That’s why I decided to dedicate the fall to changing it after watching Eliza’s technique.

After repeated stretching (in prone position) and in this highbar drill, you will get better. But it takes months and months, so don't expect instant results. But the stretching (in prone position) is something that you can do anywhere, anytime.


Months and months. I was hoping for weeks and weeks :dazed: I don’t have a high bar I can hang from, I have a bar for pullovers but I can’t hang from it. I will definitely start the shoulder stretching though.

I will post a video with my new technique and old technique hopefully next week.

Thank you again for the responses!

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KirkB
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Re: Take-Off and Reverse-C Suggestions?

Unread postby KirkB » Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:19 am

flyingfish12 wrote: Months and months. I was hoping for weeks and weeks :dazed: ... I will definitely start the shoulder stretching though.

It's only the 1st week in Oct, so you have about 3 months before the indoor season starts, don't you? Or where do you live?

Try and find or build a highbar or rings.

At any rate, you're welcome, and good luck!

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

flyingfish12
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Re: Take-Off and Reverse-C Suggestions?

Unread postby flyingfish12 » Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:23 am

I have been working on the plant the last few weeks but also working on my top end (spiral turn is getting a lot better, I'm starting it sooner).

I was at the park with the sliding box today and took some video. It is here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDQsysvdNek

My goal is jumping with my chest out and relaxing my top shoulder at the plant. The "jumping off the ball of the foot" is not a natural feeling. So some of these are better than others. It's a lot to think about at once. I will be back at the park on Sunday so if you see anything I can improve on please let me know, I will try to video again Sunday.

Thank you!

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KirkB
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Re: Take-Off and Reverse-C Suggestions?

Unread postby KirkB » Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:55 pm

flyingfish12 wrote: I will be back at the park on Sunday so if you see anything I can improve on please let me know, I will try to video again Sunday.

Your top arm looks fine, but you seem to be pushing with your bottom arm. Instead, you should be letting your chest drive thru (keeping your bottom arm relaxed).

Perhaps you're confused on which arm to keep relaxed?

If found this quote from one of your earlier posts:
flyingfish12 wrote:I have bent my left arm at the plant since I first started and that is a hard habit to break ...

I did give you some advice re this earlier, but I see no improvement re this yet. Perhaps you're still confused? If you want to vault like Eliza McCartney, work on this.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

flyingfish12
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Re: Take-Off and Reverse-C Suggestions?

Unread postby flyingfish12 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:05 am

Here is the latest video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVxcZDq ... e=youtu.be

I have been focusing on: 1) getting my jump more up (than out) and getting my top hand up; 2) keeping my eyes straight instead of looking down; 3) getting my left leg back.

The feeling is different, I can feel this in my pecs and shoulders now, which may mean my top arm is going back further?

Anyway, that's the latest with the sliding box. I had one plant today at the gym where I was close on this and the pole flew me in the air, it was great :D

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KirkB
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Re: Take-Off and Reverse-C Suggestions?

Unread postby KirkB » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:29 am

flyingfish12 wrote: I have been focusing on: 1) getting my jump more up (than out) and getting my top hand up; 2) keeping my eyes straight instead of looking down; 3) getting my left leg back.

The feeling is different, I can feel this in my pecs and shoulders now, which may mean my top arm is going back further?

I think I'm seeing some good improvement here, especially re good posture on takeoff, and driving the lead knee up! You could drive the chest thru - further forwards. I'm not seeing that "stretch" yet, so I doubt that your top hand is stretching back as much as it could and should.

Do us a favour, please, and mark a line on the track at the front of the box (where the butt of the pole hits the box). This will help us see when the box begins to slide.

I can't be too sure (as it is now, without seeing exactly when the box begins to slide), but I think you're under. If this was a real vault, the pole would jerk you (because you're under), and you wouldn't maintain that good body posture that I'm seeing with the sliding box.

Remember that we don't want the top hand to stretch back because the pole is jerking it back. Rather, we want to see you intentionally start stretching your chest forwards and your top hand back *before* the pole hits the box. I think the sliding box is good practice to get the feeling of this, but I'm not seeing it yet. Keep working on that.

Also, if you teach yourself to stretch this way, then even if you *are* under a bit, you won't get jerked as much (or I should say it won't feel like you're getting jerked as much). At any rate, you'll have a smoother plant, whether it's a free takeoff or not.

flyingfish12 wrote: I had one plant today at the gym where I was close on this and the pole flew me in the air, it was great :D

I wish you caught that one on vid! :)

Good work!

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

flyingfish12
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Re: Take-Off and Reverse-C Suggestions?

Unread postby flyingfish12 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:53 am

Thank you Kirk!

I have some video from today but it is not very good, on Sundays there are soccer games at the field and with the time change it is getting really dark by the time they are over. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9KaKVETO7Y

I put tape down to mark the box end and also my take-off mark. I look to be about on my mark on half of the jumps, but inside on the other half?

Please let me know what you see on these, I was trying to get my chest out more today but not sure I got there. I will try to get more video on Tuesday.

You asked about my bent left arm and what I meant by that. Here is my plant from this summer when I went 3.65m - skip to 30 seconds into the video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyks_UfRAXw I am definitely throwing my head back to speed the inversion. In my defense, I had just started to get the inversion in April, before that I was flagging. I want to change everything about that takeoff though!!

Thank you Kirk for your help on all of this. :)

flyingfish12
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Re: Take-Off and Reverse-C Suggestions?

Unread postby flyingfish12 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:10 pm

Here is a video from this weekend, the brighter day was Saturday and the rainy day was Sunday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLNNa-do6Lw

My step was inside on Saturday so tried to move more outside on Sunday, it is definitely a different feel. Also both days trying to get my chest out but I am still not driving my right arm back as far as I would like so I will be working on that.

Here is how I would grade myself: Without pole, just jumping: 8; with pole and sliding box: 6; at the gym actually vaulting: 3. In other words, I am finding it hard to translate what I know I should do, and can do just jumping without a pole, to what I actually am doing with a pole. :confused:

Question: should I be trying this on lighter poles in the gym, or bigger poles? I was on a 13' 1" 155 yesterday and it is definitely getting me in the air but the pole doesn't bend nearly as much as a lighter pole so I never get that 90 degree bend look hanging from the pole at take-off (?)

Thank you for any comments!


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