DJs Midmark question

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Tincup1215
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DJs Midmark question

Unread postby Tincup1215 » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:22 am

Vaulter is capped on a 14' 165, so hes gripping at about 13'8. On 7 lefts, his mark is about 91', give or take a foot for conditions. I've been studying DJs midmark chart and he should be at 45' correct? I kept track of where he was at and last night at our meet and he was at 42'6-43' every single time. My question is, how do I go about fixing this without throwing the kid completely off? I'm not looking for him to hit 45' on the dot right away, but I do believe he shouldn't be 2-2.5 feet past this mark. I've got a couple ideas on what I want to do with him at practice today to work on this, but would like your thoughts on how you would go about this.
Last edited by Tincup1215 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DJs Midmark question

Unread postby Tincup1215 » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:52 am

https://youtu.be/m20jKHs2MI8

Video from yesterday's meet. Temperature dropped to about 38 degrees, with the wind it felt like 30, so we stopped right after he made 12'. He's on a 14' 160. He's 5'10, 142 lbs. Running from 7 lefts, starting at 91'. Take off should be just inside 11', he takes off a toe under 10'. His midmark he hit was at 42'6, should be at 44'6-45'. My thought is, get him improved on his mid mark and the take-off should improve along with it. Kirk and others, thoughts and/or advice?

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Re: DJs Midmark question

Unread postby KirkB » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:38 pm

Tincup1215 wrote: Kirk and others, thoughts and/or advice?

Well, I've never claimed any expertise or personal experience with DJ's midmark technique - I only have a strong trust in DJ knowing what he's talking about.

But for what it's worth, my impression is that you're trying to be too perfect in far less than perfect conditions. Your vaulter cleared that 12' by a mile, even though he was under and even though he jogged down the runway. AND in cold weather! Is his PR 14' something?

I could be wrong, but I think DJ intended for the numbers on his chart to be used for warm weather vaulting, and for when the vaulters are able to keep warm enough to run full speed on a full run. I don't see that being your situation.

But take away the cold weather, and improve the run, and I think you're on the right track re your idea of improving the takeoff point by hitting the midmark better.

Please correct me if I'm misinformed about this.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

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Re: DJs Midmark question

Unread postby Tincup1215 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:22 am

Kirk -I've read your responses on here to other threads and value your insight.

He's a 14' vaulter. Yesterday at practice (Temp in the mid 50s), we hit full run slide boxes before we vaulted. I marked 45' and watched. He started out hitting 43'-43'6, with his take off a toe under 10'. I showed him where he should be at on his mid and where he has been hitting and he was able to make the adjustment pretty quickly. Started hitting 45' on his mid, with his take off at 10'3" (better, but not ideal).

I know I'm probably overthinking this, but I'm trying to prepare him to move up to my next flight of poles which is 14'7 150, 155, 160. If his run is inconsistent and take off continues to be under on the 14' series, it will get even worse if I were to move him up a flight. My goal in the next 6 weeks is to get him to consistently vault on the 14'7 poles, it's his best shot of making 15' by the time our Sectionals and State meets roll around.

I agree that he's still jogging down the runway. When I tell him to bring a little more speed, that's when his run gets even wonkier and is coming in to his take-off out of control, leading to a weak take-off. As a coach, i'm struggling with what battles to fight and in what order I need to fight them in, if that makes sense

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Re: DJs Midmark question

Unread postby KirkB » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:02 pm

Tincup, I think you're doing it in the right order. If his steps are off, everything else will be off. Focus on plant and takeoff next. Once he's got that down pat, he can focus on his runway speed. Then the swing, and the rest is gravy.

Good luck.

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Re: DJs Midmark question

Unread postby dj » Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:36 am

Good morning

First there's been a few misconception concerning the "Mid" chart... It's actually not a middle step... It's a mark 6 steps from takeoff... So if your run is 100 feet it does mean your 6 step should be 50 feet!

The six step is related to the average speed (with good posture and good pole drop, no stretching) needed to get the hand grip for that 6 step to vertical.

Not a middle step..

To get the correct run and 6 step check mark.. Go to the track and set up your run.. Run and plant into a towel or shoe box..

Measure your average, fast, good posture, good pole drop run from the takeoff toe to the mid, to the start..

That is the run you should strive for on the runway..

Dj

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Re: DJs Midmark question

Unread postby dj » Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:10 am

Approach runs on the track is the absolute way to perfect the approach.. Same with the long jump..

It has never made any sense to me that every jumper or jumps coach did not demand they have a perfect run!

I won the NAIA indoor long jump BECAUSE I had the best run, that day for at least one jump!!!

What I have found to go along with the chart being the absolute best physics based reference for the jumps with those grips and 6 step marks is.. That a vaulters best "mid" 6 step.. from runs on the track are alwYs faster and therefore a foot longer on the track because you run faster on the track without a box to plant into..

The chart was NOT me checking every vault for 20 years to get averages.. My chart was set up mathmaticly, in the 1970's based off my long jump chart, from 4 16 foot and 4 14 foot vaulters before dave roberts jumped his WR 18-6 in Gainesville. His run was 130 ish and 6 step ?54ish

The chart went to 20 foot vault. And has been on target for 19' to bubka at 20' and Ranard now... Ranards poor jumps and out of control jumps have been "out" miss and stretching steps..

Dj

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Re: DJs Midmark question

Unread postby KirkB » Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:34 am

dj wrote: The chart went to 20 foot vault. And has been on target for 19' to bubka at 20' and Ranard now... Ranards poor jumps and out of control jumps have been "out" miss and stretching steps..

Hi DJ,

What about Shawn Barber's steps on his 2 misses and one make at 5.75 in Portland World Indoors? Visually, it looked like he had step problems, and in his 3rd attempt [clearance], he appeared to me that he] chopped his steps to compensate.

Any comments on those vaults from your observation of the youtube vids? Thanks!

Kirk
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Re: DJs Midmark question

Unread postby Tincup1215 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:15 pm

Thank you for the replies DJ and Kirk, definitely giving me a better idea on how to train some of my guys so they'll be more consistent. I'm sure I'll have plenty of more questions to after I break down more video.

Vaulter made 13'6 Tuesday night gripping 13'8 on a 14' 165. His run is better, but that midmark still isn't consistent. Gonna do some work on the track with him today, maybe use a slidebox if he can get the hang of it.


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