Rocking back fully

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Jered63
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Rocking back fully

Unread postby Jered63 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:06 am

I'm a 14'3" baker and a junior in high school. I always get a huge hip height buy I'm having trouble rocking back all the way with my tuck and that is effecting the way I invert and shoot. This makes me stay to shoot towards the bar instead of vertically. Any advice?

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Re: Rocking back fully

Unread postby Tincup1215 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:23 pm

Any video?

Shooting out/flat up top is usually caused by a poor take-off, losing energy on the swing and causing you to connect low on the pole, leading to what I call a "saggy butt". If your hips are sagging down, the only direction you can go is out and not up.

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Re: Rocking back fully

Unread postby powerplant42 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:12 pm

That's one tall baker!

Try using the search bar with words like "tuck," "rock back," and "shoot." The general consensus on this board at least is that this is an unhelpful way to approach the vault... It's all about the swing, no tuck!

It seems antithetical to the problem you are having, perhaps, but in the long run it will help it. Tucking kills energy to obtain a position... The vault should never have positions, only actions.
"I run and jump, and then it's arrrrrgh!" -Bubka

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Re: Rocking back fully

Unread postby vcpvcoach » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:33 pm

Whom ever is coaching you has not left the 1980's. Please do the searches that poweplant has suggested. Good luck!

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Re: Rocking back fully

Unread postby KirkB » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:40 pm

Tincup and PP are correct, but I'll try to explain it from a different viewpoint.

The reason you flag out is because you've lost your momentum, so you can't raise your center of gravity any higher. Or if you did, you would stall out and not make the pit.

This is usually because you aren't running fast enough, or even if you're run is OK, you lose your momentum on the takeoff.

The easiest cure for this is to lower your grip. That will cause you to swing better, and invert better. Once you're upside down (fully inverted), AND you have lots of momentum left over, you can shoot up instead of flag out. When you lower your grip, consider using softer poles.

So if you're flagging out, it's usually one of these things. Just lower your grip; work on your swinging technique; then slowly raise your grip up again. With the better technique, you can start getting onto bigger poles again.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

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Re: Rocking back fully

Unread postby KirkB » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:44 pm

Tincup and PP are correct, but I'll try to explain it from a different viewpoint.

The reason you flag out is because you've lost your momentum, so you can't raise your center of gravity any higher. Or if you did, you would stall out and not make the pit.

This is usually because you aren't running fast enough, or even if your run is OK, you lose your momentum on the takeoff.

The easiest cure for this is to lower your grip. That will cause you to swing better, and invert better. Once you're upside down (fully inverted), AND you have lots of momentum left over, you can shoot up instead of flag out. When you lower your grip, consider using softer poles.

So if you're flagging out, it's usually one of these things. Just lower your grip; work on your swinging technique; then slowly raise your grip up again. With the better technique, you can start getting onto bigger poles again.

Also, make sure you keep the standards all the way back (80cm or 31.5"). That way, you will always land safely in the middle of the pit. This will give you the increased confidence that you need to focus on your technique, without worrying about stalling out.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

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Re: Rocking back fully

Unread postby OwlVault » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:57 pm

A vaulter I am coaching is having the same problem, I think. She has a pretty decent take off (though she runs low like a soccer player), and the only problems I see are a bit of a bent trail leg and some throwing her head back. She then stalls out when she hits the L position, unable to rock back- the hips just sort of stop there.
Would a lower grip get her to finish her swing or is there a more fundamental problem preventing her from rocking back?

Video below:

http://sendvid.com/h67insgv

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Re: Rocking back fully

Unread postby vcpvcoach » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:31 pm

Owlvault, your girl is almost two shoes under at takeoff. This can be from her running with low knees or that her plant is late. 20/20's off the runway would help. You can run a tape on the track and measure out her run. Place a towel where the back of the box would be and have her run high knees. She should start the plant on her second to last left from the box/towel. It's going to feel early but with practice, she will be able to get into a better swing after plant.
The coaching note in this is that when she in on at takeoff. You can draw a line from the bottom of her top hand down to the toes of her takeoff foot. Try to film at a 90 degree angle from the plant box so you can see this line.
Hope this helps.

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Re: Rocking back fully

Unread postby OwlVault » Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:54 pm

Thanks so much! We'll be working more steps and we even spent some time fine tuning them during warm ups today. They were actually on point at today's meet, but she is still giving up on her swing once at the L position.

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Re: Rocking back fully

Unread postby KirkB » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:52 pm

OwlVault wrote: Would a lower grip get her to finish her swing or ...

Yes!

OwlVault wrote: ... is there a more fundamental problem preventing her from rocking back?

No!

Lower her grip, even if there's not a softer pole for her to use. It's useless to waste practice time when she can't make the pit. There isn't much learning happening when she bails like that (I know from bitter first-hand experience). It's also not much fun for her; will cause her to lose self-confidence; and will lead to bad habits. It's also not safe to stall out, or to barely make it over a bar with standards too close to the box - keep them at 80cm (31.5").

Please reread my first post in this thread, which explains the theory that you need to understand. Then, after understanding that ...

1. Lower her grip.
2. Focus on hitting her takeoff - it doesn't have to be a free takeoff, but it should NOT be 2 feet under, either!
3. Improve her swinging technique. (I prefer to focus on the swing - not the so-called "rockback". When you swing properly, there is no rockback!)
4. Gradually raise her grip, while ensuring that she doesn't lose the technique that she learnt with the lower grip. Or take off "in".

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

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Re: Rocking back fully

Unread postby OwlVault » Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:24 pm

Thanks again, Kirk. I think I was just pushing her to take off on bigger poles because she CAN, not because she should. We're doing swinging drills and practice today and will get her on something smaller to see whether she finds it easier to swing.


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