Paul Burgess 5.91

[KYLE ELLIS]

There is no such thing as luck in pole vaulting unless u rape the bar and it stays up, or if the standards are off (which doesnt happen in elite comp.)

[achtungpv]

There is no such thing as luck in pole vaulting unless u rape the bar and it stays up, or if the standards are off (which doesnt happen in elite comp.)

You must have never seen video of Kory Tarpenning's 19'0 1/4" in Monte Carlo where he maybe had 18'0" in hip height. That was luck.

[KYLE ELLIS]

Then that would go under raping the bar and it staying up... I saw a lot of that at the 96 trials, Hartwig and Johnson did it a lot that meet.

[VaultNinja]

My problem with this argument is that people are saying if you do something once, it wasn't you who did all the work to get there, you were just lucky, but if you do it twice then it was all you.
.....What if you win Olympic Gold once.......Lucky, not Olympic Medalist
.....What if you break the world record once.....Lucky, not World record Holder
.....What if you win one Presidential Election, but not two.....Lucky, not President
So in your opinion Tim and Toby are lucky to jump 6m, but not 6m jumpers. Stacy, Nick, and Tim were lucky to win Olympic gold, but not Olympic gold medalists.

Doesn't sound right to me. If someone works there tail off to accomplish something great, no matter how many times they do it, they should not be branded as "lucky" they should aplauded for there achievment and hard work paying off. To me it just sounds like something someone would say because they are jealous they weren't the one to be the center of attention that day.

[ashcraftpv]

My problem with this argument is that people are saying if you do something once, it wasn't you who did all the work to get there, you were just lucky, but if you do it twice then it was all you.

Not what i'm saying at all if you go back and read what I said. I don't think you're quite understanding what i'm getting at. Your skill level and hard work allows you to be in position to attempt jumps at those heights. When you clear a new PR, your skill(technical proficiency, strength, speed, pole selection, standard placement, etc) allows you to clear that height, but there are also other intangibles(weather, crossbar placement, crossbar properties, stability of the standards, etc) that may influence the result as well. The greater your skill, the less likely those intangibles (or "luck" if you will) will factor into your result and you'll increase the likelyhood that you'll be able to reproduce the result again.

.....What if you win Olympic Gold once.......Lucky, not Olympic Medalist
.....What if you break the world record once.....Lucky, not World record Holder
.....What if you win one Presidential Election, but not two.....Lucky, not President

You're transposing my logic onto other nonrelated things. I'm talking about clearing a certain height, not winning something ot breaking a reacord. Your analagies miss the point in this context.

So in your opinion Tim and Toby are lucky to jump 6m, but not 6m jumpers.

not entirely.....when I hear someone say they are an 18' jumper, it makes me think that they can clear 18+ on a regular basis, not that they've cleared 18' once. To me, Tim and Tob are 19 footers that have cleared 6m(but you get into the whole meters vs feet thing and it just make it more complicated), but that's just how I interpret it. You may be different.

Doesn't sound right to me. If someone works there tail off to accomplish something great, no matter how many times they do it, they should not be branded as "lucky" they should aplauded for there achievment and hard work paying off.

I agree, Paul should be applauded for jumping 5.91m. That's an awesome height that I can only dream about jumping. I'm not taking away from his accomplishment. Plus, he popped a 5.80m jump (i think) pretty recently too, so he's backing up his previous jump.

The first time I jumped 16' in HS, I got so fired up. My coach told me, "That's great! Good job. Now do it again, then we'll really have something to start getting excited about". That's basically what i'm talking about about here. Awesome jump, let's see if he can do it again......

To me it just sounds like something someone would say because they are jealous they weren't the one to be the center of attention that day.

easy there slick! where did that come from? in the future try to keep the inflammatory comments to yourself. I'm just stating my opinion like everyone else is around here. If you don't like it, then that's your problem, not mine. Why would I be jealous of some Aussie who jumped 2' higher than me when I don't really jump anymore?

[KYLE ELLIS]

easy there slick! where did that come from? in the future try to keep the inflammatory comments to yourself. I'm just stating my opinion like everyone else is around here. If you don't like it, then that's your problem, not mine. Why would I be jealous of some Aussie who jumped 2' higher than me when I don't really jump anymore?[/quote]

Isnt it an inflammatorycomment saying someones new pr was a lucky jump?LoL? All I'm saying is if someone said tim or toby's jump at 6m were luck we would come under lots of inflammatory comments...

[Robert schmitt]

I think both of you make very valid points. I was definatly a 1.... actually 2 jump wonder.

[Mecham]

I think you guys are arguing too much. If they have done it once, they have the ability to do it again.

[Carolina Extreme]

http://thewest.com.au/20050117/sport/tw-sport-home-sto130260.html

Record lifts Burgess into elite class


EMMA GEORGE

Paul Burgess put on the best pole vault display ever seen in Australia as he sailed over 5.91m, setting an Australian all-comers record at Perry Lakes on Saturday....

Am I the only one who noticed the name Emma George? Is she writing now? That would explain why the article flows with "Vault Talk". Unlike Dwight Stones, or whom ever it was in the Olympics that said Brian Clay had extraordinary technique.

[Vault&Flip]

http://thewest.com.au/20050117/sport/tw-sport-home-sto130260.html

Record lifts Burgess into elite class


EMMA GEORGE

Paul Burgess put on the best pole vault display ever seen in Australia as he sailed over 5.91m, setting an Australian all-comers record at Perry Lakes on Saturday....

Am I the only one who noticed the name Emma George? Is she writing now? That would explain why the article flows with "Vault Talk". Unlike Dwight Stones, or whom ever it was in the Olympics that said Brian Clay had extraordinary technique.

LOL. You made my day for bringing that up.

[VaultNinja]

My problem with this argument is that people are saying if you do something once, it wasn't you who did all the work to get there, you were just lucky, but if you do it twice then it was all you.

Not what i'm saying at all if you go back and read what I said. I don't think you're quite understanding what i'm getting at. Your skill level and hard work allows you to be in position to attempt jumps at those heights. When you clear a new PR, your skill(technical proficiency, strength, speed, pole selection, standard placement, etc) allows you to clear that height, but there are also other intangibles(weather, crossbar placement, crossbar properties, stability of the standards, etc) that may influence the result as well. The greater your skill, the less likely those intangibles (or "luck" if you will) will factor into your result and you'll increase the likelyhood that you'll be able to reproduce the result again.

.....What if you win Olympic Gold once.......Lucky, not Olympic Medalist
.....What if you break the world record once.....Lucky, not World record Holder
.....What if you win one Presidential Election, but not two.....Lucky, not President

You're transposing my logic onto other nonrelated things. I'm talking about clearing a certain height, not winning something ot breaking a reacord. Your analagies miss the point in this context.

So in your opinion Tim and Toby are lucky to jump 6m, but not 6m jumpers.

not entirely.....when I hear someone say they are an 18' jumper, it makes me think that they can clear 18+ on a regular basis, not that they've cleared 18' once. To me, Tim and Tob are 19 footers that have cleared 6m(but you get into the whole meters vs feet thing and it just make it more complicated), but that's just how I interpret it. You may be different.

Doesn't sound right to me. If someone works there tail off to accomplish something great, no matter how many times they do it, they should not be branded as "lucky" they should aplauded for there achievment and hard work paying off.

I agree, Paul should be applauded for jumping 5.91m. That's an awesome height that I can only dream about jumping. I'm not taking away from his accomplishment. Plus, he popped a 5.80m jump (i think) pretty recently too, so he's backing up his previous jump.

The first time I jumped 16' in HS, I got so fired up. My coach told me, "That's great! Good job. Now do it again, then we'll really have something to start getting excited about". That's basically what i'm talking about about here. Awesome jump, let's see if he can do it again......

To me it just sounds like something someone would say because they are jealous they weren't the one to be the center of attention that day.

easy there slick! where did that come from? in the future try to keep the inflammatory comments to yourself. I'm just stating my opinion like everyone else is around here. If you don't like it, then that's your problem, not mine. Why would I be jealous of some Aussie who jumped 2' higher than me when I don't really jump anymore?

Wow I really rubbed you the wrong way. That was some impressive writing. I stand corrected, they were all lucky. Take it easy "slick"

[rainbowgirl28]

http://thewest.com.au/20050117/sport/tw-sport-home-sto130260.html

Record lifts Burgess into elite class


EMMA GEORGE

Paul Burgess put on the best pole vault display ever seen in Australia as he sailed over 5.91m, setting an Australian all-comers record at Perry Lakes on Saturday....

Am I the only one who noticed the name Emma George? Is she writing now? That would explain why the article flows with "Vault Talk". Unlike Dwight Stones, or whom ever it was in the Olympics that said Brian Clay had extraordinary technique.

Yes, Emma George has written many of the pole vault related articles in Australia over the past year or so. She's doing a wonderful job