DJ's Chart

A forum to discuss overall training techniques, nutrition, injuries, etc. Discussion of actual pole vault technique should go in the Technique forum.
User avatar
VaultPurple
PV Lover
Posts: 1079
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:44 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, College Coach, Pole Vault Addict
Favorite Vaulter: Greg Duplantis
Location: North Carolina

DJ's Chart

Unread postby VaultPurple » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:37 am

http://www.nacactfca.org/Johnston6stride.pdf

Here is a copy of the chart posted online and it has another chart for long jump. What I want to know is why are they so different?

For a 15'6 vault, It has a 6 stride mark of 48 but when you take out the plant it is 36'4 but a long jump of 35'6 mid mark is only a 15'6 long jump distance. But when Someone pole vaults 15'6 shouldn't that run be well more than enough than to long jump 15'6?

User avatar
powerplant42
PV Rock Star
Posts: 2571
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:58 am
Location: Italy

Re: DJ's Chart

Unread postby powerplant42 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:58 am

Sort of early in the morning (and I know nothing about long jump), but just an idea: it appears as if the "stride length" for each event don't refer to the exact same thing... The pole vault chart has it referring to before the check (maybe?) and the long jump after. Just seemed to look that way. I don't have an explanation for it.

Hopefully DJ himself has something coherent to say... Just wanted to take a crack at it!
"I run and jump, and then it's arrrrrgh!" -Bubka

Flyer Coach
PV Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:38 pm
Expertise: High School/College coach
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Stacy Dragila

Re: DJ's Chart

Unread postby Flyer Coach » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:08 pm

[quote][/quote]

Okay, I'll take a swing at this. Yes an athlete capable of vaulting 15' 6" certainly should be able to LJ much farther than 15' 6". However, that athlete would not be carrying and controlling a pole when on the LJ runway and thus their speed would allow for a much greater 6 step mid. An athlete who can only hit the 35' 6" mid in the LJ is really a slower athlete than the vaulter capable of hitting that mark with a pole. Another way to look at it, and it might be funny to see, but could a 15'6" vaulter LJ farther than 15' 6" if they had to LJ while carrying and controlling a pole, just not planting? I think DJ is saying overall speeds are similar thus physics tells us the outcome, NOT that a 15' 6" vaulter would have a similar mid-mark if he/she decided to become a long jumper. Does that make any sense, or am I not even in the ballpark regarding you question?

User avatar
powerplant42
PV Rock Star
Posts: 2571
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:58 am
Location: Italy

Re: DJ's Chart

Unread postby powerplant42 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:52 pm

Or the chart is just messed up for whatever reason. :eek:
"I run and jump, and then it's arrrrrgh!" -Bubka

dj
PV Enthusiast
Posts: 1858
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:07 am
Expertise: Coach
Contact:

Re: DJ's Chart

Unread postby dj » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:48 am

when was this posted???

i can't really tell what you are "comparing" ...

looks like you are looking at the numbers wrong....

a 45' mid in the long jump is a 25 foot jump and a stride length of 7'6" and speeds of (haven't check the numbers) ? 10mps

a 45 mid in the vault is only 5-9 strides, because of subtracting the TO distance and 7.3mps...

it's simple... a 45 "MID" in the vault is the speed (physics) to grip 13-5 and jump 14 feet, on average

a 45 "MID" in the long jump is the speed (physics) (stride lenght and frequecy) to jump 25 feet, on average

this actually should not have been posted i don't have the time to "discuss" it and Becca has locked the "MID" thread so no "defenses" can be made...

i'm moving all my post to http://www.polevaultcentral.com i have administrators getting it set up as we speak... i'm not in the states so it's taking longer to get rolling..

dj

Coachken
PV Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:26 pm
Expertise: College Coach, 30 plus years
Lifetime Best: 14'6"
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Jeff Hartwig

Re: DJ's Chart

Unread postby Coachken » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:36 pm

I am a college coach and have used DJs chart for a long time. It's really pretty simple but it seems some don't understand the basic laws of physics. Trying to compare how far someone jumps in the long jump versus how high someone goes in the pole vault does not take into account gravity! I have found DJs chart in the pole vault very accurate in determining mid marks and how high an athlete is capable of vaulting based on some simple concepts....the faster you run, the longer your stride, the faster you run (technique being equal) The higher you vault. I am really not in the habit of posting because I find there are simply too many people more interested in proving themselves right than being open to concepts and ideas and this chart is a great training guide.

User avatar
VaultPurple
PV Lover
Posts: 1079
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:44 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, College Coach, Pole Vault Addict
Favorite Vaulter: Greg Duplantis
Location: North Carolina

Re: DJ's Chart

Unread postby VaultPurple » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:39 pm

dj wrote:when was this posted???

i can't really tell what you are "comparing" ...

looks like you are looking at the numbers wrong....

a 45' mid in the long jump is a 25 foot jump and a stride length of 7'6" and speeds of (haven't check the numbers) ? 10mps

a 45 mid in the vault is only 5-9 strides, because of subtracting the TO distance and 7.3mps...

it's simple... a 45 "MID" in the vault is the speed (physics) to grip 13-5 and jump 14 feet, on average

a 45 "MID" in the long jump is the speed (physics) (stride lenght and frequecy) to jump 25 feet, on average

this actually should not have been posted i don't have the time to "discuss" it and Becca has locked the "MID" thread so no "defenses" can be made...

i'm moving all my post to http://www.polevaultcentral.com i have administrators getting it set up as we speak... i'm not in the states so it's taking longer to get rolling..

dj


I posted this the day before I sent you a private message about the topic. I am in no way discrediting your chart, so there is no reason to be defensive. I actually use that exact 6 step chart from that website every day with the vaulters I coach.

The question was just relating the pole vault chart to the long jump chart. I understand how to use both, but was just simply wondering how they compared. As you listed above, a 45'mid long jump is a 25 foot jump. And just for sake of the reference we will go with what you said about a 25 foot jump requiring about 10 m/s. In the vault when you run 10m/s according to the chart, you would need over a 59' mid mark. And when you subtract about the 15'6 take off the athlete would need. You are left with fairly close to 45' which is what the long jump chart says. Which proves your chart is working.

I pretty much just wanted you to tell me either what vault height coordinated to a long jump distance on the two charts or a speed for one of the long jump distances, which you did so it all works out good now. The reason for this is I am trying to get one of my girl vaulters to start long jumping again and I wanted to use the chart for her long jump too but wanted to know if it was as accurate as the vault chart. She long jumped over 18' in high school 3 years ago but has not jumped since, and I really think she is a lot more athletic and has much better running form than she did when she entered college so it would be good to see if that would improve her jump.


Return to “Pole Vault - Training”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 4 guests