help with insane high exercise

[H.I.S.]

I have been reading about this highbar exercise which displays incredible strength and athleticism. From a dead hang on a high bar swing to a handstand on the bar.
I attempted this for the first time today and was able to get my chin to the bar but could not push into the hand stand. It had the strength but I don't think I had my wrist in the proper position when I was ready to push off the bar. I've been trying to relate this to the way you grips for a muscle up but I can't figure it out. Or is it just forcing yours hands to rotate similar to a clean?
I'd appreciate any info or advice on technique becuz I know I have the strength but I am missing something in form.
Thank you for any and all helpful comments

[LHSVaulterJJR]

probably just like giants or free hips or most gymnastics skills where u just have to shift your wrists. If your having trouble its probably because there isnt enough momentum there. Giants ect are easy to shift the wrists because of momentum and i think the point of the swing to handstand your describing is to swing and transfer energy more efficiently. So either swing harder or find a better way to transfer that energy up to shift the wrists...... thats actually intresting though, I saw a video on youtube a while ago of isanbeyeva training and doing those and she simply did just what your saying you have. She just brought her chin to the bar and otherwise was in a handstand except her wrist werent shifted ontop of the bar...... my advice... if the female world record holder cant do it, i dont think its something to worry about

[powerplant42]

I believe what you've seen Isi doing is not what you think... We are talking about a dead hang to handstand... Is this what you're talking about? Can you provide a link?

Also, HIS, could you film yourself trying this excercise (both from a distance and with a close up of your hands perhaps)?

It would be interesting to see how the progressions for this trick might work...

[H.I.S.]

Ill get a video up as soon as I can.

I haven't seen the video of anyone doing this exercise. Right now my only online access is through my cell phone so it is very limited.

I think your right that its in the rotation of my wrist. I started doing my handstand push ups on a bar to see how deep I could go and its not much more difficult to put my chin belowe the bar and push as it is to put my chin to the floor and push.

It is much more difficult to rotate the wrist from a dead hang compared to a giant. I haven't had the guts to do a giant in awhile since our landing area is not large enough to safely perform a giant.otherwise I would do them as practice

Has anyone seen prof gymnast perform this manuver?

[KirkB]

Look at the 9:05 mark of this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh9krQwbkgc&feature=channel_page and you'll see Christopher Tamminga doing the shoot-to-a-handstand. It's not from a dead hang, but it's from a very slight swing.

This is the best I've ever seen anyone perform this trick.

I used to try it from standing below the bar, jumping up, grasping the bar, then pulling myself into a handstand ... not too different than Tamminga, but I would only get maybe 3/4s of the way up, and then I'd have to shift my grip and press it to a handstand ... usually falling over the bar in the process.

You will see that Tamminga presses it straight up, without hesitation. So clearly, he doesn't get stuck 3/4s the way up and then have to muscle it the rest of the way (much).

Re your concern with the grip ... you basically need to shift your grip ONCE. For most of the trick, you grip it in the natural way, right thru your swing and most of your extension. Now, if your extension is fast enough, you'll have the momentum ... as Tamminga does ... to continue rising up as you shift your hands.

If ... like me ... you don't have this powerful momentum, you'll still have to shift your hands ONCE ... but then you're going to have to press to a handstand.

One thing that helped me practice this ... so that I didn't get stuck 3/4 the way up ... was to allow myself to rotate (fall) over the bar ... and just get as high as I could without stalling out. I released the bar and fell on my back, just as Timminga does in the vid.

A variation on attempting to do just a single rep of this trick is to try to do as many as you can ... one after the other ... without letting your chest scrape on the bar. So it became somewhat of an endurance challenge. I think I could do around 10, but I forget the exact number.

Kirk

[baggettpv]

I think the back uprise to free hip handstand is a much better exercise for the simulation of the last phase of the swing. Point one: hands stay in the hip area. 2: Feet/legs stay above support (hands). 3: rotation is around the support.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

[H.I.S.]

I think the back uprise to free hip handstand is a much better exercise for the simulation of the last phase of the swing. Point one: hands stay in the hip area. 2: Feet/legs stay above support (hands). 3: rotation is around the support.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

I learned that drill many years ago at EMU.

ideally should this be done from a completely dead hang ?
When I attempt this I am in a dead hang and extend my trail leg and raise my drive knee and attempt to handstand on the bar from a bubka? Ill have to find a way to watch that video

[KirkB]

I learned that drill many years ago at EMU.

ideally should this be done from a completely dead hang ?
When I attempt this I am in a dead hang and extend my trail leg and raise my drive knee and attempt to handstand on the bar from a bubka? Ill have to find a way to watch that video

Even Hamminga doesn't do it "from a completely dead hang" ... it's something you need to work up to ... after years of practice.

I also wouldn't fuss over trying to simulate the vault whilst doing this ... by worrying about your lead knee and your trail leg. Just do it two-legged ... purely as a gymnastics excercise. Once you can do that, then you can play around with an assymetric PV swing/extension ... but I think you're getting way ahead of yourself.

Kirk

[H.I.S.]

Tamminga is a beast and made that look so easy just a little harder than a giant. not at all what I had pictured. Even with that kind of double leg swing I wasn't any closer.

Is there a name for that move?
Or can someone of expertise give it a name so I don't keep calling it the really hard high bar technique?

[KirkB]

Tamminga is a beast and made that look so easy just a little harder than a giant. not at all what I had pictured. Even with that kind of double leg swing I wasn't any closer.

Is there a name for that move?
Or can someone of expertise give it a name so I don't keep calling it the really hard high bar technique?

In gymnastics, it's not a trick that you can earn any points from, so it doesn't have a name. From a competitive highbar routine point of view, it could only be your mount trick, and you would get immediate deductions from swinging back and forth. Your mount trick needs to be immediate - without any swinging or hesitation. So this trick has no formal gymnastics name that I know of.

In PV circles, we call it "shoot-to-a-handstand". If it was from a dead hang, it's called the "shoot-to-a-handstand-from-a-dead-hang", and from the slight swing, you could call it the "shoot-to-a-handstand-from-a-slight-swing".

There's also a simpler shoot-to-a-handstand trick that you should learn first ... and distinguish from these two. It's called a "cast-off-shoot-to-a-handstand", and you start it from on top, with the bar in front of your hips (a little below your belt line). You then "cast-off" by pushing your hips backwards ... away from the bar ... about a yard or meter ... then begin your pike around the bar as you lose gravity. As your shoulders begin to drop, you pike so that your legs extend up above the bar ... on the opposite side to your shoulders. When your shoulders drop directly below the bar, you should be extending vigorously upwards ... much like the extension vault part in PV. From there ... if all goes well ... you shoot to a handstand.

This trick is much easier than from a hang or slight swing, because you've built up lots of momentum from the downswing of your shoulders. Before you attempt the shoot-to-a-handstand from a slight swing (or dead hang), you should perfect the "cast-off-shoot-to-a-handstand". This is a common competitive beginner/intermediate gymnastics move too ... on uneven bars or highbar ... but too easy for an elite male gymnast.

To get your hips up on the bar to the point where you can cast off, you can do a kip (aka kip-up). Putting all 3 tricks together into one continuous motion, and it's called a kip-cast-off-shoot-to-a-handstand".

Kirk

[vault3rb0y]

geez now i want to build a competitive high bar...

[Run2Niels]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oFIp4aE2d0

It would be nice to see a vid of a "shoot-to-a-handstand-from-a-dead-hang" on the high-bar. Is this even possible?

I'm not so well informed in gymnastics, Rick. Do you have or know a video of the "back uprise to free hip handstand"? Probably in Dutch I would understand, but in English I don't get it.