"Short termism" in US vaulting

A forum for coaches to discuss coaching technique and advice with each other. Only registered coaches can post in this forum.

Moderator: AVC Coach

User avatar
altius
PV Maniac
Posts: 2425
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:27 am
Location: adelaide, australia
Contact:

"Short termism" in US vaulting

Unread postby altius » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:40 pm

While the detailed analysis of technique presently be conducted in the Advanced section is laudable I am not sure it will really help solve the problems of elite vaulting in the USA. As I have indicated on several occasions previously, the critical weakness in US pole vaulting at the moment is that there are few really good coaching environments that post collegiate athletes can move to if they decide to make the commitment necessary to achieve their full potential - even more importantly there is little or no financial support to enable them to do this. Clearly Rick Suhr has been able to deal with these issues with great success - it would great if he was prepared to detail how he has in fact achieved this.

However I believe that there is a secondary issue that is holding elite development back. That is what I called 'short termism' in BTB1, where the priorities of college programs naturally - and inevitably in most cases - revolve around success in conference or national championships, and not the long term development of the athlete. So while we can debate esoteric issues of technique, any analysis of the techniques of the athletes at the NCAA indoor meet or the WAC meet suggests that some/many of them have never had the slightest exposure to the Petrov Technical model. No free take off, no covering the pole - indeed many don't even carry the pole correctly, and at least one athlete at the NCAAs has a grip width that reminds me of the old French model of vaulting from the 1980s. The technical models - if that is what they can be called - that I see here are, IMHO, adequate for talented athletes to jump in the 5.30 - 5. 70 range but will never allow them to move to the next level without major changes; as we all know a difficult, time consuming and usually frustrating process. They are what I would term 'working models of technique, not the advanced model provided by Petrov and demonstrated by Bubka thirty years ago in Helsinki.

So why is that the basic principles of the Petrov model are not being applied? Are its advantages still not accepted and understood even at college level? It is no more difficult to teach and coach than any other approach. In fact in my experience the rational, interrelated nature of this model makes it easy to understand and to apply in both teaching the event and in training for it. So what does anyone else think?
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

User avatar
VaultPurple
PV Addict
Posts: 1079
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:44 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, College Coach, Pole Vault Addict
Favorite Vaulter: Greg Duplantis
Location: North Carolina

Re: "Short termism" in US vaulting

Unread postby VaultPurple » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:28 pm

1) I agree: There is a lack of post college training opportunities (unless you stay with your college coach but then it comes down to liability issues if the school allows post college training)

2) I disagree there is a lack of good coaching. There are a ton of great coaches. The majority know and have studied the Petrov model, and a lot believe it to be the ideal technique.

3) 2 kind of goes along with 3. There is some sort of short term mind set but not as much as you would think. College coaches do want athletes jumping higher at the right time of the year, but there are not many being detrimental to long term development to do so. The only thing that keeps them from coaching one particular model is that not all coaches have access to athletes that are only taught one model in high school. So if you recruit a vaulter that is an amazing athlete that is jumping 17' in high school by tucking and shooting, a college coach will slowly try and tweak the technique and get the athlete in better shape, maybe slowly getting the swing longer and stronger, but not completely breaking down their vault and changing technique from day 1. This is because they would probably get way worse and may not even hit their high school PR until the end of college. There is even a chance that the athlete may never be a better Petrov vaulter than tuck and shooter.

4) So what is the main difference between USA and everywhere else? We on average change coaches three or four times, while a lot of people in other places have the same coach from 6' to 19'. College coaches just do not have the opportunity to be the first person to put a pole in a kids hand.

User avatar
altius
PV Maniac
Posts: 2425
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:27 am
Location: adelaide, australia
Contact:

Re: "Short termism" in US vaulting

Unread postby altius » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:54 pm

Thanks - appreciate the considered response. However have you looked at the film of the vaulters I mentioned? One would think that if athletes were even trying to use the Petrov model that they would at least carry the pole 'the Petrov" way -with the hand under the pole, not on top of it where it has to be supported by muscles not the skeletal system. And certainly not dropped low three steps out. In fact if film - especially slowmo - were available it would be a great learning experience for coaches hoping to work at the college level for them to carry out a technical analysis of those vaulters - comparing what they see to their visual model of the event.

By the way I did not mean to imply that there were not good coaches in the US. I have repeatedly stated on this forum that there many good coaches - just not enough of them.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

grandevaulter
PV Pro
Posts: 428
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:49 pm
Expertise: Three year highschool vaulter 1978-80. Now coaching highschoolers and competing in masters.
Lifetime Best: 11'
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Timothy Mack
Location: South West, MI

Re: "Short termism" in US vaulting

Unread postby grandevaulter » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:11 pm

I also watched those videos of our indoor nationals. I did not see any of those great vaulters bound or get the knee rise that Bubka did. I'll just keep applying the coaching methods and techniques to my young vaulters that you have presented so well your book. I have a tall chore in front of me with a green crew of vaulters. I keep your book in my bag.

ADTF Academy
PV Junkie
Posts: 494
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:57 pm
Location: South Bend, IN

Re: "Short termism" in US vaulting

Unread postby ADTF Academy » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:51 am

http://youtu.be/L0P3H4iO1DU

jump at :39. Like to point out new pegs bar wouldn't have stayed. Is this considered a good takeoff position? If this was a jump by someone at US Nationals would it be compared to perfect Bubka form?



There are too many athletes/coaches looking at a final project and matching themselves to it. Create a plan to jump with certain principles. Too many athletes trying to vault like someone else without setting the foundation first. Comparing themselves to what is suppose to be perfect not comparing themselves to where they are on the path to perfection. Was Bubka's jump the perfect model the first day he picked up a pole? If he was jumping now and everyone tore his vault apart when he was only a 5.50 guy would he have progressed? Or did Bubka trust the path presented in front of him by his coach. They stayed on their game plan and over many years of execution, reps and training he was able to achieve the moment of some what perfection.

grandevaulter
PV Pro
Posts: 428
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:49 pm
Expertise: Three year highschool vaulter 1978-80. Now coaching highschoolers and competing in masters.
Lifetime Best: 11'
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Timothy Mack
Location: South West, MI

Re: "Short termism" in US vaulting

Unread postby grandevaulter » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:26 pm

The great Ben Hogan said that he may have only struck the ball well once in an entire round. He wanted perfection on every shot but achieved it .015 % . He published a book on the five fundamentals of his game about half a century ago. Most of the professionals in that sport have read it, rarely if any dispute it and several of the top money earners to this era carry it with them on tour.

(On another subject)
I just find it amazing how powerful Bubka ran on the approach. I have always been a fan of that type of approach but see many of our great collegiate vaulters and even good high school vaulters not bounding with high knees on the approach. I see the sagging wrist and all the weight of the pole on the fore arm. Alan in his BB2 has illustrated frame by frame and written in great detail the order of the Bubka technical model.

BB2 also provides Bubka's daily work out regiment. Is that why he is so powerful on the approach ? Or did he have greater athletic abilities than our present elites. He says not ! I think he was wound tighter mentally. My saying is " The most important 6" in the pole vault is between the ears". My German ancestors told me "ordnung ist das halpa leben" Order is half of life. If something is not done in order, it is "out of order". ( It does not work).

I believe in a sound technical model, a firm plan or blue print to this event. We have the order presented before us.

User avatar
altius
PV Maniac
Posts: 2425
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:27 am
Location: adelaide, australia
Contact:

Re: "Short termism" in US vaulting

Unread postby altius » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:14 pm

(On another subject)
I just find it amazing how powerful Bubka ran on the approach.
BB2 also provides Bubka's daily work out regiment. Is that why he is so powerful on the approach ? I AM SURE BECAUSE HE WORKED AT IT CONSISTENTLY UNDER PETROVS DIRECTION. A STORY TO ILLUSTRATE THIS. I BROUGHT VITALY OUT TO WORK WITH OUR BEST VAULTERS IN THE EARLY 90'S. HE STARTED THE FIRST SESSION WITH STRAIGHT LEG CLAWS OVER THIRTY METRES - THE PRACTICE WENT ON AND IT WENT ON!! AS TIME PROGRESSED THE ATHLETES -OUR BEST - STARTED TO FALTER AND MUTTER ABOUT WHEN THEY WERE ACTUALLY GOING TO GET TO THE "GOOD STUFF"!!! HE KEPT THEM GOING AND THEN EVENTUALLY HE STOPPED THE DRILL AND SAID, "GENTLEMEN WHEN YOU CAN RUN PROPERLY, I WILL START TO TEACH YOU TO POLE VAULT.

Or did he have greater athletic abilities than our present elites. He says not ! HE WAS ADAMANT ABOUT THIS WHEN I ASKED HIM A DIRECT QUESTION ABOUT THIS AT THE EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS IN 2002. HE WENT ON TO SAY THAT HE BELIEVED THAT THERE WERE SEVERAL MORE PHYSICALLY CAPABLE VAULTERS THAN HE WAS AROUND AT THAT TIME.

I think he was wound tighter mentally. AGREE.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden


Return to “Pole Vault - Coaches Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests