How we should coach

A forum for coaches to discuss coaching technique and advice with each other. Only registered coaches can post in this forum.

Moderator: AVC Coach

dj
PV Psycho
Posts: 1858
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:07 am
Expertise: Coach
Contact:

How we should coach

Unread postby dj » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:00 pm

Coaching

I wonder how many "common" denominators there are between these 5 coaches and six vaulters?

'84
Tully – dj
Bell – Kochel

2000
Hysong – Hull
Lawrence – Bemiller

2004
T-Mack – Bemiller
Toby – Todd

Since the early '90's there has been a "coaching change"… what do I mean by that?

First there are more coaches but is there the same "quality"?
Has video helped or hurt?
Has coaching education helped or hurt?
Has certification helped or hurt?

It seems coaches of my "era" or their "off spring" are still producing results, all events, not just vault. Why?

In the beginning of my career a coach had several qualities, first they were normally PE majors and knew physiology, physics, bio-mechanics (body movement) and had "eye" for coaching. They saw the action in "frame by frame" mode just as an athlete will tell you a great jump, throw etc "feels" when it is correct. Feels easy.

What did we do without video? We tried very hard to "copy" the world record holder, the Olympic champion, the fastest the one with the most endurance. We COPIED.. if we found a "twist" (according to physics) that made the athlete better we might 'experiment" and test, if not how would we approach improvement?

Simple answer.. we tried and designed our programs to get make the athlete faster , stronger and more technically sound.

Let me give you and example.. you can only get a faster trail leg by getting faster and by being "faster" more aggressive over the hurdle. Does not matter how many trail legs you do.. it will not give you a faster trail leg unless you are faster "into" the hurdle.

Why do many, many athletes go to college and not improve or improve very little? They did not get stronger, faster or more technically correct.

Example here is a 6 year long jump progression.. every male long jumper can accomplish this with the correct work.
21-7 * 22-4 *23-3 * 24-1 * 24-7 * 25-1

My point with this?

We need to change the way we coach. Aspire to do the things the record holders do. To the letter. Demand that you athletes get stronger and faster every year.. you must have a progressive overload mentality.

Here is the women's 100m Hurdle Olympic Gold Medal "prototype." Follow this to Gold..

Ht 1.66m Wt 60k
100m 11.14
150m 16.86
200m 23.02
100mH 12.28/12.35

Find you event "proto-type" and go for the gold and coaches, let's get with the program.

dj

User avatar
VaultPurple
PV Addict
Posts: 1079
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:44 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, College Coach, Pole Vault Addict
Favorite Vaulter: Greg Duplantis
Location: North Carolina

Re: How we should coach

Unread postby VaultPurple » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:51 pm

I am a big fan of the thought that no one should compete or in some cases, pole vault, until they are more athletic than they were the season before.

Athletes enter college all the time that are really good pole vaulters and all their coach wants to do is fix their technique and think they should break a world record.

But if you spend August-February training like a world class athlete, not a pole vaulter, then you are going to become a world class athlete that can pole vault.

This does not mean you must PR at the end of February in the vault. Just that your vertical should be higher, your flying speeds without a pole should be faster, and you should be stronger and more explosive. You probably should not PR the first meet because you have not pole vaulted that much. But you have been doing the occasional high bar and slight technical work to stay fresh so you still know how to pole vault. Then you can spend March-August cleaning up that technique and making slight break through.

I have seen pole vaulters improve by a foot and a half in one meet (15+ vaulters). This did not happen because they suddenly got faster, it happened because everything they had been doing finally clicked. He spent the entire off season and beginning of season just getting faster and stronger, and then they spend the early parts of the season learning how to use that new found athleticism while they vault. They figure out the timing, and they progress through bigger poles.

So many people want to vault all the time. But there comes the point where you stop vaulting to train and start training to vault.

dj
PV Psycho
Posts: 1858
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:07 am
Expertise: Coach
Contact:

Re: How we should coach

Unread postby dj » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:04 am

thanks VP good stuff...

dj

dj
PV Psycho
Posts: 1858
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:07 am
Expertise: Coach
Contact:

Re: How we should coach

Unread postby dj » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:14 am

good morning,

i look at "progressive overload" like this....

if you train correctly and improve your speed and strength each year, you should have the capability of raising your grip "one" grip each year… one grip is 6" in vault height , 6 x 4 = 24".

Come to college at 12 feet and you, at the minimum, should jump 14 feet by your senior, 4th year.

Come to college at 14 feet you should jump 16 feet.

my experinece has show me that many 13-6 high schooler boys can jump 15-6/16 feet their first year because they already had the speed and strength and just needed to learn how to technically use it. After the freshman year they are on the 6 to 8 inches per year plan.

dj

User avatar
AVC Coach
PV Addict
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 9:21 am
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, Current Coach (All levels)
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Miah Sanders
Location: Black Springs, Arkansas
Contact:

Re: How we should coach

Unread postby AVC Coach » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:11 am

You probably should not PR the first meet because you have not pole vaulted that much.


I respectfully disagree with this. Although I believe it's important to take some time off from it all when the season is over, I think it's important to have a pole in their hands every week once they start training again. Train for the body, vault for the mind. Do pro golfers quit swinging a club for months at a time so they can improve their fitness level? How many NBA players quit shooting the ball to become better athletes? Can't vaulting be part of the overall conditioning process?

And why not PR that first meet? Didn't we just spend the entire off season making improvements? Life goes by at the speed of sound and a season is just a blink of the eye, especially to a young athlete.

dj
PV Psycho
Posts: 1858
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:07 am
Expertise: Coach
Contact:

Re: How we should coach

Unread postby dj » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:48 am

good morning,

i with you AVC... i have a very "specific" day by day plan for training in the fall as well as the spring.. but i treat the fall, as far as "jumping" as a season in itself and hope they PR in the first meet.

an example of this was Earl Bell. his freshman PR was 16-8..appx 120 run..14-6/14-10 grip.. in the fall of his sophomore year the goal was to PR from approx.. 90 feet.. 14? strides... Mid October he had a practice and jumped 16-6, bar not bungee a dozen or so times and just missed 17 a dozen times.. We went to SIU a couple of weeks later, where Jan J. was coaching and had our own little two team meet. Earl Jumped 16-6 there with very close jumps at 17. I made a 2 steak dinner bet at that time that Earl would jump 17-6 indoors and 18 out! (with a longer run) He accomplished both jumping 18-2 at NCAA's..

Fall should be a "season" in itself.. with at least 14/16 stride runs … summer of 84' Mike Tully jumped 18 feet , over a bar and allllmost 18-4 from his 14 stride run just before the Trials and 19 in practice, 20 stride run.. 2 walk-18 run, over a bar, and almost 19-5 after the trials and in 3 attempt just before the games.

dj

fishman4god
PV Pro
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:03 pm
Expertise: 4 Time all american 3 college 1 masters,Current high school pole vault coach,current masters vaulter
Lifetime Best: 4.81 m
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Tim Mack

Re: How we should coach

Unread postby fishman4god » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:52 pm

AVC Coach wrote:
You probably should not PR the first meet because you have not pole vaulted that much.


I respectfully disagree with this. Although I believe it's important to take some time off from it all when the season is over, I think it's important to have a pole in their hands every week once they start training again. Train for the body, vault for the mind. Do pro golfers quit swinging a club for months at a time so they can improve their fitness level? How many NBA players quit shooting the ball to become better athletes? Can't vaulting be part of the overall conditioning process?

And why not PR that first meet? Didn't we just spend the entire off season making improvements? Life goes by at the speed of sound and a season is just a blink of the eye, especially to a young athlete.


Dead on...treat pole vaulting (or any other event) the way gymnasts do. Specific training YEAR ROUND always useing all the equipment every week...you improve continually with that model!

User avatar
VaultPurple
PV Addict
Posts: 1079
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:44 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, College Coach, Pole Vault Addict
Favorite Vaulter: Greg Duplantis
Location: North Carolina

Re: How we should coach

Unread postby VaultPurple » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:57 pm

fishman4god wrote:
AVC Coach wrote:
You probably should not PR the first meet because you have not pole vaulted that much.


I respectfully disagree with this. Although I believe it's important to take some time off from it all when the season is over, I think it's important to have a pole in their hands every week once they start training again. Train for the body, vault for the mind. Do pro golfers quit swinging a club for months at a time so they can improve their fitness level? How many NBA players quit shooting the ball to become better athletes? Can't vaulting be part of the overall conditioning process?

And why not PR that first meet? Didn't we just spend the entire off season making improvements? Life goes by at the speed of sound and a season is just a blink of the eye, especially to a young athlete.


Dead on...treat pole vaulting (or any other event) the way gymnasts do. Specific training YEAR ROUND always useing all the equipment every week...you improve continually with that model!



I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I am just a big fan of if you feel good you vault good. If you feel fast, you run fast. The majority of people do not throw their arm out when they shoot free throws at practice, and last time I checked the only people pulling their back out playing golf were over 50 years old.

I just think when you have a generally sound technique you will always be able to go back to that fairly quickly, and then improve on it after a break from vaulting. Some times, especially at the college level, kids burn out. They may not be tired of pole vaulting, but they may just be frustrated. It is a huge mental sport as well as physical and technical. And I just mean stop vaulting, I still like for people to do high bar drills on their recovery days in the off season.

Usually a I think it is a good sign if someone (who is still learning.. as in under 17'). Can equal their indoor PR the first meet or two of the indoor season in February. Then they have room to improve throughout the season. Then they can break or equal outdoor PR by end of indoor, and then keep on upping the outdoor PR, outdoors.

I am a big fan of the interview with Brad Walker where he tells athletes to start focusing on running fast and being stronger. That the biggest difference in a 5.50 and a 6.00 meter vaulter is not technique, it is speed and strength.

I personally think Walker is consistently jumping higher than ever, but I think his form may even look a little worse. But he is like a freaking train coming down that runway, so he still gets launched.

dj
PV Psycho
Posts: 1858
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:07 am
Expertise: Coach
Contact:

Re: How we should coach

Unread postby dj » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:05 pm

hye

i don't change my program from the "progressive overload" principles.. do a lot of approach runs on the track and a lot of "speed' with the pole and a lot of pulling the sled even with a pole in the vaulters hand.

but i do jump, Sunday/Wednesday every week... straight through.. how hard and on what run is determined by the totally program.

dj

fishman4god
PV Pro
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:03 pm
Expertise: 4 Time all american 3 college 1 masters,Current high school pole vault coach,current masters vaulter
Lifetime Best: 4.81 m
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Tim Mack

Re: How we should coach

Unread postby fishman4god » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:02 am

Right dj jump sessions are where you are how you feel.........and take some rest days when you need them but.........train and jump year round!

User avatar
altius
PV Maniac
Posts: 2425
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:27 am
Location: adelaide, australia
Contact:

Re: How we should coach

Unread postby altius » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:24 pm

AVC Coach wrote:
You probably should not PR the first meet because you have not pole vaulted that much.


I respectfully disagree with this. Although I believe it's important to take some time off from it all when the season is over, I think it's important to have a pole in their hands every week once they start training again. Train for the body, vault for the mind. Do pro golfers quit swinging a club for months at a time so they can improve their fitness level? How many NBA players quit shooting the ball to become better athletes? Can't vaulting be part of the overall conditioning process?

And why not PR that first meet? Didn't we just spend the entire off season making improvements? Life goes by at the speed of sound and a season is just a blink of the eye, especially to a young athlete.


Absolutely agree with all of this! :yes:
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

User avatar
Bubba PV
PV Addict
Posts: 1395
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:58 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, High School Coach, College Coach, Former Elite Vaulter, Masters Vaulter, FAN
Lifetime Best: 5.51
Favorite Vaulter: Bubka
Location: Monarch Beach (Dana Point), California
Contact:

Re: How we should coach

Unread postby Bubba PV » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:23 pm

I love to pole vault. I would love to do it every day like surfers do. Time off is NEVER my desire. I expect to be 4-8 weeks from PR range at any time of the year because it is too hard to make up lost ground. But my body is the boss and at 59 I still don't follow orders that well. ;-) Bubba
Bubba Sparks - www.bubbapv.com

Support Becca & Pole Vault Power


Return to “Pole Vault - Coaches Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests