Approach run misconception.

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dj
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Approach run misconception.

Unread postby dj » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:17 pm

Approach run misconception.

The number one "miss conception" in the pole vault approach run is:

" if you start too fast on the approach run you will run out of speed by the finish."

This is a total misconception.. and impossible. This misconception is holding us back in the vault.

The approach start should be aggressive, slight forward lean, pushing and accelerated to at least 90% speed to the six stride mark.

The problem is this. Every vaulter who started faster and felt they started too fast in major competitions, hit the wrong (too far out) "MID" mark.. everyone. Going all the way back to the 70's when i first "checked the science" and started monitoring the six stride "MID" numbers.

Here is the dilemma.. the jumper has raised their grip or moved to a stronger pole, the bar has gone to a "winning" height.. what is "natural" for you to do?

Run faster so you can move the grip to vertical so you have a chance to win.

When you do that with "adrenalin" and without "pushing" correctly you will "short step" each of the first 12 to 14 steps by one or two inches, putting you "out" at the six step "MID" by one(30cm) or two (60cm) with no way possible to get to the correct takeoff without stretching. Stretching causes you to slow down and feel the same as if you have run out of "gas".

This is what has been happening forever.. this is what happened to Isi in the world champs… I have recently seen this happen, just this season to Lavillenie, Hooker and Walker and others.. it's easy to check just from the videos that are being published. You don't need to know the distance from the "MID", you can merely compare one jump to the other.

This is exactly why I have been "suggesting" that every jumper and coach "monitor" the six stride mark for consistency. Where were you when you jumped your best and what did the "science" say about each jump, good or bad?

dj
http://www.oneapproachrun.com

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby fishman4god » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:26 pm

Well I agree that all those things happen, however I think the comment stems from the "feeling" of slowing down which you explained. The problem needs to be adressed as you have stated numerous times from the "science" aspect. Consistency ( and useing the 6 step mid builds consistency) is the key to eliminating the start speed dilema (whch is really not a dilema). When you talk to vaulters most will understand after you explain it as you did in your post.

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby fishman4god » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:30 pm

And DJ by the way the 6 step mid has helped me build consistency (I am 54) and I am jumping 13' again in meets! Hope to get back to 14'
soon. I am a 6 step mid belever! (Also I run as fast as I can and do not slow down) If I can do it so can ALL other vaulters :D

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby dj » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:28 pm

hye

everyone afraid of weighting in??

we can't solve the problem if we don't want to solve the problem.

If you don't want to solve the problem quite complaining and making excuses…

dj

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby fishman4god » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:15 pm

I dont think they want to play ...............at least not today.

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby dj » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:30 am

good morning,

well i have a few minutes so "I" will keep it going and here is what you MUST do if you want to improve and start to jump correctly and higher.

What short run do you jump "your best" from?

i will choose 5 lefts (10 strides)because that should "fit" everyone from beginner to world-class.

Step One: Jump a few times from 5 lefts… get your best run, best grip, best jump with the standards at say 70cm.

Step Two: check the 6 step/3 left mark on your best jumps.

Step three: Move back to 6/six lefts (12 strides)… do you raise your grip from the 5 left run? There is a good chance you do.. BUTT maybe not by much.

SO.. instead of your "normal" method of moving back use my method. That method is this..

Go to the 3 left/6 step mark you just found from your 5 left, good, jumps.

Say its 40 feet with a 11-6 ish grip.. Turn away from the box.. put your heel at the 40 foot mark. Do a "normal" approach run start/runback for three lefts/6 steps from that mark.

This is the start for your 6 left/12 step approach. You should be capable of toeing this new start mark.. run toward the takeoff.. hopefully hit at about 41 feet.. get the feet down and takeoff the first time.

Let me/us know the results… please

Second "sample"…

Your 3 left/6 step "MID" on your 5 left/10 stride approach is 50 feet with a 15 foot grip…
Put your heel on 50 feet… run back 3 lefts/6 steps.. this is the start of your 6 left/12 step approach.

Turn, run (hopefully your "new" 6 step is approx 51feet) get your feet down and jump.

Let me/us know the result …

If you want to improve… you have to WANT to improve.

dj

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby fishman4god » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:06 am

OK I tried it and did this at a meet this weekend (clearwater beach vault). The numbers went like this.....

5 lefts (10 strides)from 60 feet held at 12'4" mid at 43 blew through 2 war-up jumpsway deep in the pit....situation normal.
6 lefts (12 strides) from 71 feet held at 13' mid at 44 pretty deep still but geeting up in and good position (better than expected)
7 lefts (14 strides) from 83 feet held at 13'4" mid at 45-46 completely blew through the pole and decided to go back to the 6 left and jump with a grip of 13'
(did not have a bigger pole to go to so had to go with what worked best)

Cleared 11'6" first attempt
Cleared 12' first attempt
cleared 12'6" first attempt
Passed 13'
Three tries at 13'1.5 all misses (just tired at that point )

take off mark as a side note was 10'8" pretty much every time.....................the numbers work, no balks no run throughs

Stats: male 54 5'7" 165 pole; Altius 13'9" 190 holding 13'-13'5"

Example number 2

Collegate vaulter (freshman)

5 lefts warm-up 68' mid mark 47 good jump
7 lefts 94' mid 50' blow through (moved up poles)
same numbers blow through at his start height of 14' (holding at 14'6")
moved up poles 14'6" 50' mid great jump (holding at 14'6")
Same thing at 15' 50 mid great jump (holding at 14'6"0
Same thing at 15'6" 50 mid (PR) for him (Holding at 14'6") (20" over his hand grip!)
16' pushed too hard 49 mid under at take-off 3 mis

He had the height for 16'6" at his 15'6" jump and at 15' as well but when the mid changed (run was not on) he could not make the bar. He was in and palnting late due to the run in my opinion. This was a real worl trial and the numbers worked....................I'm just saying!

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby tad_davis » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:01 am

DJ,

What you are saying is find there best vault from there 5 step at a comfortable grip. Then have them run back from that mid to their 6 or 7 step. Am I on the right track?

Also, if we go up on the grip 4 in we go back on the run 1 ft right?

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby dj » Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:02 pm

hye

you are correct...

but i don't "automatically" move them back a foot... although that is the "correct" percentage if they are running correctly..

here is where the coach needs to make the judgment.. are they running well enough to "assume" if they don't move back they will be to close and have to "chop" too much? or should you move them 6/8 inches first so you know they will not "stretch."...

once the athlete starts to stretch on the run.. even if they takeoff in the right spot, they develop a different "mind set" and it becomes very difficult to get them back to a tighter stride that is technically sound.

dj

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby VaultPurple » Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:51 am

You stated that "if you start too fast on the approach run you will run out of speed by the finish.This is a total misconception.. and impossible. This misconception is holding us back in the vault."

I do believe that about 90% of vaulters start too slow and are using too close of runs. However, I think the change needs to be a progression and worked towards.

I have seen vaulters who have jumped their PR from 5 lefts and If they try to go to 6 or 7 they are clearly not gaining any more speed.

There comes a point where there is a way you "should" do things, and then there is the way you "can" or "need" to do things. You may say that if an athlete hit's their full speed in 5 lets and can not go any faster or slows down after that then they are just not athletic enough, or really out of shape. But if that same athlete can still pole vault higher than people that are more 'athletic' then them, then that is what you work with for now. That may be a little off topic, but just the fact that the world of pole vault is not completely black and white.

This goes a lot into defining the logic of a lot of coaches that believe pole vaulting is the most important part of training for the vault. If you wan't all the athletes you are coaching to pole vault to be able to run 8+ lefts, hit 90% 3 lefts out, and full speed at the plant. You have to do more sprint training. The pole vaulters have to know how to accelerate, they have to know how to sprint. The pre-season work outs have to be filled with short sprints and long sprints. Involving 20-30m fast sprints with 100% acceleration along with longer sprints that can get up into the range of 150-200m. Those will cover the short extreme of accelerating full speed, and the long extreme of holding full speed. Longer sprints will also just make you better conditioned to survive longer meets. Then training where you do build up and acceleration runs where you can tone into exactly how you want to have a controlled acceleration.

I always like to describe pole vaulting as controlled chaos. But you can not just tell a pole vaulter to run full speed that has not been trained to do that because they will be out of control and not be able to handle the speed. But if you train with the short, very fast accelerations like coming out of the blocks, then a fast acceleration with pole in hand will feel very controlled but will get you moving a lot better than without the extra training.

--------

As far as the 6 step mark DJ created, I have always been a major fan. But I found if I just tried to force an athlete to run the step according to their grip then it did not really work all that great, it did for some, but not for all. But if we worked on proper sprint mechanics, and the athlete learned how to accelerate and run properly, then the chart was much closer. But it is a great guide for telling if something has gone wrong, or if a vaulter is really off with their run.

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby fishman4god » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:14 am

"I always like to describe pole vaulting as controlled chaos. But you can not just tell a pole vaulter to run full speed that has not been trained to do that because they will be out of control and not be able to handle the speed. But if you train with the short, very fast accelerations like coming out of the blocks, then a fast acceleration with pole in hand will feel very controlled but will get you moving a lot better than without the extra training.

--------

As far as the 6 step mark DJ created, I have always been a major fan. But I found if I just tried to force an athlete to run the step according to their grip then it did not really work all that great, it did for some, but not for all. But if we worked on proper sprint mechanics, and the athlete learned how to accelerate and run properly, then the chart was much closer. But it is a great guide for telling if something has gone wrong, or if a vaulter is really off with "

I agree with you for the most part, sprint training is absolutely esential for vaulters, but I do not necessarily beleive that anyone can reach full speed in 5 lefts.....it takes a human about 40-50 meters (proporly trained as you stated) to reach full speed. That is a fact based in all exercise physiology research some studies even put the distance at 60 meters!

Now with that being said the 6 step mid chart as I understand it is to be used based upon mid mark first and then attach an approprite hand grip height based upon their consistent mid-mark. That mark will also correlate to an approprite take-off mark. So maybe you intermittant success is a result of sequencing as far as consistency and/or repeatability. Maybe I am off base and not understanding so bear with me if I misunderstand.

I have had very good success with the chart when sequenced correctly and of course combined with sprint training as you previously stated.

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby grandevaulter » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:11 am

Practice ( doing the same thing over and over) is the key to the approach. I've watched the kids hit the mid and miss the take off. I've seen them miss the mid by a foot and hit the take off step. I've watched the state champions in our division starting with a 10 and no mid beat the kids coached with the 12 and the mid. I'm sure there is a place for dj's approach. I have watched and listened to the rhythm of the approach. Listening to the rhythm can be as effective as assigning an assistant to the mid. High school kids that jump 4 months a year are not "typically"going to benefit from this mid chart. I really appreciate the time and thought put into this.


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