PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

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PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby reggiepv » Thu May 03, 2012 11:38 am

When you carry the pole, you either grab tight with the top or bottom, then when you raise your hands/lower the tip for the plant, the pole rotates in the other (loose) hand.

My impression is that more popular method is gripping tight with the top hand, and the pole rotating in the bottom hand. The pros for this technique are that you could take better advantage of using sticky substances to keep your top hand tight, and that in the end you really don't want that top hand to slip so its best to keep it tight all the way.

I was taught and use the opposite technique. The pros to bottom hand tight, top hand loose, is that its a much more comfortable pole carry, and I have not had difficulty grabbing tight with the top hand when I finish my plant.

I'd be interested to hear other comments, a poll on this subject would be interesting, I wonder what percent of vaulters do each technique?

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Re: PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby reggiepv » Thu May 03, 2012 6:02 pm

Hey guys... anyone viewing this topic... even if you don't want to comment on which technique you like better or why... if you could leave a note saying which technique you teach... it could be like an informal poll. I'm Reggie Henderson of Rochester, NY. I do the technique of bottom hand tight (i was taught that way, it's a pain to change, and actually I like it better), but I teach the technique of top hand tight (because I think that's the standard way, so I don't want to teach a less popular technique).

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Re: PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby botakatobi » Thu May 03, 2012 6:44 pm

Top hand should not move/rotate once you line up the soft side of the pole. The setting of your top hand takes place during your pause at the head of the runway prior to approach.

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Re: PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby reggiepv » Thu May 03, 2012 8:06 pm

Botakatobi =Japanese pole-high-jump aka pole vault cool!
The other way works also, you can set your bottom hand before you start your run and let your top hand rotate. The vaulters from Toronto, including 5.50 vaulter Jason Wurster, all use this technique.

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Re: PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby botakatobi » Thu May 03, 2012 10:24 pm

You're the first one to comment on my name. The world class Japanese vaulters always enjoy my name when I see them at meets.

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Re: PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby altius » Mon May 07, 2012 12:36 am

Just a thought. Why do you think that all the great Soviet vaulters, including Bubka, used double sided and/or black insulation tape AND their own specially prepared secret liquid formula to ensure that they are gripping tightly with the top hand. Then if you look at the way Bubka planted the pole - you might learn something relevant from that.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

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Re: PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby dj » Mon May 07, 2012 2:23 am

hye

physics.....

the top hand has to be "set" and aligned correctly so the "soft side" of the pole is in the right direction when the pole is "turned over" for the plant… the top hand shouldn't be totally open, although I think Isi was, but doesn't have to be a "vice" grip either.. it generally takes a little "wrist" flexibility to make it correct and comfortable….. the left hand should support "under" the pole, held 10" from the middle of the chest…with the grip mainly from the thumb and forefinger during carry.

dj

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Re: PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby reggiepv » Mon May 07, 2012 10:22 am

It definitely seems the more popular method is to hold top hand tight.

That method does allow you to use sticky substances to "glue" your top hand to the pole.

But... you do not have to use a top hand tight method to end up with the soft side of the pole in the correct direction.

With top hand tight, the pole rotates with the raising of the top hand, during the run the soft side is down, and when you plant, the pole has to rotate in your bottom hand.

With bottom tight, the pole doesn't have to rotate, you carry it with soft side up (which becomes forward when you plant_) and when you plant the pole rotates in your top hand, the upward motion of the pole results in a natural tightening of the grip.

I believe that Bubka and most vaulters do use top hand tight, but that is not the only way to carry the pole and finish with the soft side correctly aligned.

I do bottom hand tight, but I teach top hand tight since it's the standard way. The question is bothering me a little because I tried to switch to top hand tight myself, but I just found it very uncomfortable for the run. So... I was considering teaching bottom hand tight. But from the responses I'm getting, I can see that it is not a well-known nor popular technique. I did hear a rumor that Renauld does bottom hand tight. Jason Wurster and the vaulters in Toronto also do this technique.

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Re: PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Mon May 07, 2012 1:55 pm

Isinbayeva has her bottom hand tight and top hand loose. There's much debate about which is better, but they both work (if taught properly), and we've seen Petrov's two best athletes use both methods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_RfK2rp2To

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Re: PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby reggiepv » Mon May 07, 2012 2:24 pm

Thanks Becca!

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Re: PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby tsorenson » Mon May 07, 2012 5:18 pm

I agree that both ways can work. However, there is an advantage to keeping the bottom hand open. When you grip the pole tightly with the bottom hand during the approach, it automatically causes your left elbow to rise in relation to the wrist. This makes for a generally slower plant that is more likely to roundhouse out to the right side (for right handed vaulters). If the bottom hand is open it is easier to keep the elbow below the level of the wrist, allowing a more centered and quicker upward plant. Most of the vaulters I know who roundhouse the plant have a tight bottom hand.

There is also a potential advantage to having a (slightly) open top hand during the plant. It makes it easier to flip the pole over before your 3rd-to-last footstrike. Bubka had a very flexible wrist to do this with a fully closed top hand, especially considering the weight of the poles he was using. A good pole drop can make this much easier than a bad pole drop.

I used to be a tight-bottom hand guy, but over the past few years have switched to an open bottom hand and a slightly open top hand. Even though both grips are "open," I am still gripping tightly with the webbing of the hands, preventing the pole from rotating during the approach. Both hands invariably grip tightly at the plant, due to self-preservation instinct!

Tom

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Re: PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby reggiepv » Mon May 07, 2012 6:27 pm

Tom,

You seem to be implying that there's is room for rotation, or a NON-tight-solid-grip, in BOTH hands... I still have trouble wrapping my head around that concept, but... Rick Suhr described something like that to me (but Jenn Suhr said she did tight top hand), Jason Wurster also described something like that too, so... I guess there's a 3rd possibility of a little rotation in both hands.


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