Jump at Takeoff

A forum to discuss pole vault technique as it relates to beginning vaulters. If you have been jumping less than a year, this is the forum for you.

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treykristianPV
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Jump at Takeoff

Unread postby treykristianPV » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:14 pm

Now, I've been vaulting for about 6 years, and I've been increasing my height consistently as I get older and more mature, I started in seventh grade at the age of 12 vaulting 6'6" and now I'm 17 and have jumped 13'6" officially, and 14'9" in practice. All of these years of vaulting though I still have a trouble of jumping big at takeoff. By this I mean instead of jumping at takeoff I tend to run into the plant and I tend to overbend the pole when this happens. So I was wondering if there was any thing that could help me mentally jump at takeoff because I know it isn't a physical problem because I have a 27 inch vertical and work on jumping exercises A LOT.

I'm 5'7.5"
145 pounds
using 14' pacer fx pole series between 155-165, or a 13'6"170
always holding around the 13'6" grip
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Re: Jump at Takeoff

Unread postby KirkB » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:02 pm

If your practice PR is 15" higher than your meet PR, maybe you need to compete in meets more? That alone might help you get back on track to improving your technique, especially if you chat it up with your competitors. Or how do you account for that 15" difference?

When you say ...
treykristianPV wrote: ... instead of jumping at takeoff I tend to run into the plant and I tend to overbend the pole when this happens. So I was wondering if there was any thing that could help me mentally jump at takeoff ...

... then your steps are probably under, and you're probably bending the pole before your takeoff foot leaves the ground? :confused:

That's the most probable way that you're overbending by running through the plant.

As long as you're under like this, it will be near impossible to jump into your vault.

Search for the discussions about a "free take off" (AND "free takeoff") on PVP and in the BTB2 book, and learn how to create the space needed to enable you to jump off the ground before your pole begins to bend.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

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Re: Jump at Takeoff

Unread postby treykristianPV » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:28 pm

Thank you for the response Kirk, I haven't been in many meets this summer, just a lot of practicing.
I understand what you mean when I am under, which normally my take off is at 11' and I take off right around 10'8" normally. so when I do move my steps to move my takeoff mark to be on, I can't ever take a jump up because it feels like I'm going to be out. I've heard of the free take off and that's what I've been trying to work into, but its an uncomfortable switch at first, and how I got my extra 15" was when I had a take off from 11'3" and I was already off the ground a split second before the pole had even contacted the box.
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Re: Jump at Takeoff

Unread postby KirkB » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:21 pm

treykristianPV wrote: ... I've heard of the free take off and that's what I've been trying to work into, but its an uncomfortable switch at first, and how I got my extra 15" was when I had a take off from 11'3" and I was already off the ground a split second before the pole had even contacted the box.

OK! :yes:

That gap can feel uncomfortable at first, but that's why you need to jump harder - to fill that gap! :idea:

It doesn't sound like you just fluked a single vault. You must have gotten into a groove and improved your takeoff on a number of vaults over a period of time. I say this because it would be highly unusual that you would jump 15" higher suddenly on a single day. So whatever you did over a series of practices to increase your PR by 15" is what you should continue to do.

I'm confused whether your normal takeoff is at 10-8 or 11-0 (you say they're both normal), but at any rate, you seemed to vault 15" higher when you got your takeoff 3"-9" further back!

So envision the technique on your 14'+ vaults, and build upon emulating that technique! :idea:

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

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Re: Jump at Takeoff

Unread postby treykristianPV » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:29 pm

Okay, then I guess I'll suffer being uncomfortable so that I can jump higher haha.

And over the past series of practices it has gotten a little better with being at 11'3" for take off leading to high jumps, but there are days when I still take off from my old position of 10'8" and overbend the poles.
But on the good hand I've been working on visualization skills to envision being farther out on my take offs so that I hit the 11'3"-11"6" takeoff spots because those give me the higher heights and reduces a pain in my back I get when I take off from 10'8".
My coach says if I can consistently get my takeoff down that I will be able to hit 14+ every time I jump.
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Re: Jump at Takeoff

Unread postby Ben_N » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:06 pm

I can attest to what Kirk says about spacing. You might be taking off from a correct mark (around 11') but you might be rushing to get your feet down and making it harder to jump up at takeoff.

I would also suggest getting a coaches mark. A coaches mark is a mark from your 3-step that is used in full runs. It can help determine a few things on spacing. For example, my coaches mark is near 39' from my 5, 7, and 8-step marks but I'm 6'3" and around 11 flat 100m time so you might be around 36-37'. Have someone catch that coaches mark and make sure you're not rushing the last steps to get your plant in. Rushing the last steps vs. accelerating into the last steps is different as well if that makes sense.

That is what is probably causing you to run through the plant vs. jumping up into it.

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Re: Jump at Takeoff

Unread postby treykristianPV » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:13 pm

I understand what you mean Ben, thanks! I'll look into the coaches mark a little more. Although, on the other part in my vault i work up from slow to fast to a constant to acceleration right at the end at takeoff. If that makes sense.
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Re: Jump at Takeoff

Unread postby grandevaulter » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:59 pm

Hi Trey, I watched you compete indoors at Hillsdale, MSU and warm up at Cornerstone. I don't offer advice or make suggestions at meets, I don't care for know it alls around the vault, I keep to myself and my own athletes.

There are drills that Launder used in his book to facilitate the free takeoff and/or pre jump. These are not necessarily the same thing but can be.

treykristianPV wrote:I have a 27 inch vertical

Should be a 30" to 32". Keep working on this.

The Launder pre jump take off drill is simple but in my opinion only works if you employ his 6 step plant drill and 5 step check.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWGyzPNXI_U
If you roll this ahead to 4:40 the vaulting starts, watch Bubka's best jump at 8:10 and his pre jump or very close to it. He said he always tried to take off out and pre jump. You will not see the approach littered with mid mark shoes or cones.

Building a consistent approach and plant away from the pit, box and bar will ingrain the good habits and posture you'll need to achieve the pre jump. 20/20's, claws and Ostrich steps, plant drills and jumping to a high bar will assist you to make positive changes and not end up back on the runway. The guy that coached the number 3 highschool girl in the nation gave us some short hurdle /pole run drills that help build stride patterns and improve posture. Had you made your way to our clinic, you could have seen these drills first hand. PM me if there is anything that I can do for you or someone that I can send you to in your area to help.

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Re: Jump at Takeoff

Unread postby treykristianPV » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:18 am

grandevaulter wrote: I watched you compete indoors at Hillsdale, MSU and warm up at Cornerstone
Such a small world we live in.
Anyways I agree with your statement about helping other athletes, even though I do help other athletes, it's only because form my little town I'm one of the few that know pole vault, granted, I don't know everything about it yet, but I am learning.

I have and still will be working on my vertical. At the moment, there is no improvement but I do feel more explosive on my jumps. I'll look into the drills you have listed and start implying them to my training to see which ones start helping.

The good news, in this past week of practices I made an effort to start taking off before or right on my mark and I instantaneously felt each vault become more and more effortless, At times before I had to really work through a vault to complete it, but now I'm taking off much taller and really jumping up and into it and making me have to bury my standards on the pole I normally used to have them at 22" (14' 155 pacer fx). I know KirkB likes hearing to have the standards buried. Also I have consistently been jumping 14'+ consistently in practice, and having a meet this Saturday were I'm confident that I should hit a 14' mark.

Thank you for the great advice.
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Re: Jump at Takeoff

Unread postby KirkB » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:01 pm

treykristianPV wrote: I agree with your statement about helping other athletes, even though I do help other athletes, it's only because from my little town I'm one of the few that know pole vault ...

It's the dishing out of free advice without being asked for it that Grandevaulter was referring to. If you give advice to someone that asks for your advice, then that's a good thing.

treykristianPV wrote: I have and still will be working on my vertical. At the moment, there is no improvement but I do feel more explosive on my jumps. I'll look into the drills you have listed and start implying them to my training to see which ones start helping.

Don't forget basketball layups, and stretching up to the basket without the ball. You'll find my comments on these drills by searching for "kirk basketball".

treykristianPV wrote: The good news, in this past week of practices I made an effort to start taking off before or right on my mark and I instantaneously felt each vault become more and more effortless, At times before I had to really work through a vault to complete it, but now I'm taking off much taller and really jumping up and into it ...

This is great news!

The more effortless it feels, then the smoother it is, and the more efficient (based on the Laws of Physics) it is! :idea:

In an earlier post, you also mentioned that you got a pain in your lower back when you took off under. By taking off "on" or "out", your takeoff will also be painless. Pain in the lower back is a common complaint of many vaulters. You've found the remedy! :idea:

treykristianPV wrote: ... and making me have to bury my standards on the pole I normally used to have them at 22" (14' 155 pacer fx). I know KirkB likes hearing to have the standards buried. Also I have consistently been jumping 14'+ consistently in practice, and having a meet this Saturday were I'm confident that I should hit a 14' mark.
:yes:
The reason for keeping the standards at 31.5" (80cm) is (1) so that you're guaranteed to always land safely in the pit (assuming that you clear the bar in a normal arc); and (2) for consistency - it's much easier to just vary other things (like flex, grip, and steps) if you keep your standards at a consistent setting. :idea:

treykristianPV wrote: I have and still will be working on my vertical. At the moment, there is no improvement but I do feel more explosive on my jumps. I'll look into the drills you have listed and start implying them to my training to see which ones start helping.
:yes:
Don't forget basketball layups, and stretching up to the basket without the ball. You'll find my comments on these drills by searching for "kirk basketball".

treykristianPV wrote: The good news, in this past week of practices I made an effort to start taking off before or right on my mark and I instantaneously felt each vault become more and more effortless, At times before I had to really work through a vault to complete it, but now I'm taking off much taller and really jumping up and into it ...
:yes:
This is great news!

The more effortless it feels, then the smoother it is, and the more efficient (based on the Laws of Physics) it is! :idea:

In an earlier post, you also mentioned that you got a pain in your lower back when you took off under. By taking off "on" or "out", your takeoff will also be painless. Pain in the lower back is a common complaint of many vaulters. You've found the remedy! :idea:

treykristianPV wrote: ... and making me have to bury my standards on the pole I normally used to have them at 22" (14' 155 pacer fx). I know KirkB likes hearing to have the standards buried.
:yes:
Yes, I do! The reason for keeping the standards at 31.5" (80cm) is (1) so that you're guaranteed to always land safely in the pit (assuming that you clear the bar in a normal arc); and (2) for consistency - it's much easier to just vary other things (like flex, grip, and steps) if you keep your standards at a consistent setting. :idea:

treykristianPV wrote: I have consistently been jumping 14'+ consistently in practice, and having a meet this Saturday where I'm confident that I should hit a 14' mark.

This is the best news of all! In your meet, don't worry about the bar; just concentrate on a smooth plant and takeoff, just as you've discovered and learned in the past couple weeks!

The PR will be your reward for your technical improvements and hard work!

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

treykristianPV
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Re: Jump at Takeoff

Unread postby treykristianPV » Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:00 pm

Thanks KirkB and Grandevaulter!

KirkB wrote:... Pain in the lower back is a common complaint of many vaulters. You've found the remedy!

The pain has immensely decreased! Just hitting my takeoff mark consistently from the right spot made my back feel better. :)

KirkB wrote:Yes, I do! The reason for keeping the standards at 31.5".... your standards at a consistent setting.

I agree with this a hundred percent.

Thank you again!! I'll post to this topic after the meet Saturday informing how I did. I am hoping to be able to get a video to upload for analysis. :yes:
-Trey
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Re: Jump at Takeoff

Unread postby treykristianPV » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:44 am

So just to inform, this previous Saturday I jumped a PR of 14'! Almost getting 14'6".

For most of the night I was taking off from about 10'8" which is just a little under but I wasn't having much trouble with having to jump into the vault. Every time I was able to get a good takeoff and take the vault all the way through. There was a problem with my run where around my 4th left step I would take like a gazelle bound, but a Coach that was helping me told me that the reason was the lifted runway. Long story short, lifted runway messed with the my head and I changed my run when I really didn't need to.
I was vaulting on a 14' 165 UCS Spirit. Hand grip around 13'3". Standards were at 20 for most of the night. The coach at the meet agreed with me that using the bigger pole would get me more because the poles I had brought were just not stiff enough for me and having my standards at 32 wouldn't work.

I'll put up some links to YouTube when I get them uploaded and put the links on this topic.
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