Worst indoor season ever ?

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atlegu
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Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby atlegu » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:23 pm

I might provoke someone, especially since I am not an american (and comes from a country without any significant pole vaulters since 1930). However I think it is should be debated: Why are the US male vaulters (as a group) so bad this year?

This indoor season is according to the statistics all time low for US vaulters. This is not a critic of each and one jumper, but it is kind of scary that Mark Hollis is the best American with 5.63 meter. In, a not extremely good year internationally, he is number 13 on the world rankings for 2011.

No country in the world have more high school and college vaulters than the US. What happen with them?

Is it the start on a trend ? is it just a fact of randomness ? Will it be different next year ?

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby Decamouse » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:20 pm

This is a year with no Indoor Worlds -- was an Indoor European Championships -- so with an outdoor World Champ Team being chosen at the Outdoor USA CHamps - no big incentive to have a big indoor season -- look historically and this happens when the sequence comes up with no big Indoor Meet -
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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby atlegu » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:32 pm

Maybe a point, but a weak one. As I wrote 2011 is by far the worst indoor season the last 20 years. There are only World Indoor championships every second year, hence 2011 should be comparable to 2009, 2007, 2005, 2003 etc. etc. All those years are substantially better than 2011.

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby kev44000 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:50 pm

Why are the US male vaulters (as a group) so bad this year?

I think a better way of saying this would be That USA male polevaulting is down this year. We have a good bunch of guys, that I do not think are bad vaulters.

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby VaultLove » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:51 pm

A healthy Brad Walker would certainly make a difference. However, it's an insigificant season. As you may recall in the last World Indoor Championships, a medal was earned by Alexander Straub. Nice athlete, however, he's no Brad Walker. Another thing, it was Derek Miles who finished as U.S. leader with 5.65. It appeared that Mr. Hollis may clear 5.70 indoors but was unlucky.

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby atlegu » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:27 am

I think the response is a little defensive. Yes it is an "insignificant indoor season." but I guess everyone wants to vault as high as possible. I don´t have all the statistics, but I wonder when it happens last time that no US vaulters cleared 5.70 during indoor season. With all the talent, all the facilities, all the good coaches etc. there are no reasons for why US should not have some vaulters doing 5.75 every year.

That some vaulters are unlucky and others are injured is the same for all countries. However I also have strong beliefs in Brad Walker this summer, he looks strong during his few indoor meets and he has the experience. Certainly a darks horse for the world championship. Given the indoor results and results from last year, you need at least 5.80 to get a medal in Daegu, probably 5.85 in first attempt. Do other US vaulters have that potential?

And by the way: IAAF have for some reason not registered Derek Miles 5.65. But with all respect to Miles (who I think is a great vaulter), he is not the future of US pole vaulting.

(To kev44000 I did not mean "bad vaulters" my intention was the one you wrote. Using the correct words is not always easy when english is not your native language)

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby dj » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:55 am

Good morning

Our (USA) 2000 and 2004 medalist came from coaches or a "system" that had coaches that actually, personally, stood in front of the pit with Petrov in Reno and heard, firsthand what "Americans" should change at the takeoff..

Do we have anyone coaching our (USA) top vaulters that even has 2nd or third hand knowledge of that conversation???!!!

No…

That leaves us with coaches that take far removed info as the fact!!! And quite frankly they start "focusing" at a very small point (and from a "picture" image and not an action) and are not getting the overall picture… under those circumstances It might have been better to "develop" their our model.

We need to start coaching from "application of force"…. Yes there are physical actions and techniques (the most prominent are speed on the runway and a high, early, vertical with the toe takeoff), that allows us to use that force.

Also we are doing too much shot run vaulting.. we are teaching athletes to jump without speed… we have "dumbed" it down until we have slow, below average vaulters… just like distance running did in the early 70's…. now we have "long slow runners!!" who would have thought that when the "powers that be" forced longer CC and track races in high school we would cut out the "speed" talent!!!

Now we have "short run vaulters" not capable of creating the speeds needed to jump higher AND they learn to stretch and can only run by stretching…. AND stretch into the Takeoff!!!!!!! Over and over… then ask PVP to "fix it"…

Think about this… how long was Anthony Curran's run in high school? Joe Dial, Pat Manson, even Casey Carrigan…………….

and actually i don't know for sure... but i think longer than we are running even at the elite level..........

AND I have to mention poles… we have to many and to many that differ in the way they bend, especially in high school.. that a vaulter NEVER learns the correct "feel" of vaulting… that feel should be RUN-PLANT-SWING… with the right grip and right pole…

dj

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby VTechVaulter » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:28 am

everything cycles up and down. seems to me right now that one of the biggest factors was injury. Brad is still recovering from a back injury, jeremy scott had an abdominal mesh implanted to repair a torn muscle, derek had a back issue when he went over to europe that ended his indoors early, darren has a tendonosis issue in his takeoff knee, mark was jumping high sometimes the bar just doesn't treat you well. guys like colwick, and roth have been struggling with injuries for years. thats a lot of A standard vaulters that are just having a bit of bad luck at the moment. Also if you look at how many great vaulters have retired recently, its tough to expect the shoes to be instantly filled. In the last 3 years, jeff, tim, toby, tye. 4 guys to pr in recent years where the lowest of the bunch is 5.93. The russians have been seeing a similar shift in the paradigm, as have the germans in the last few years. The german team in 2010 in barcelona was Schulze, Mohr, and Rapheal, whom are all really good vaulters, but its not the speigelburg, ecker, lobinger, otto type guys we were used to. They will get there/ are getting there. The russian team was quite different too.
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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby ADTF Academy » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:57 am

Look around the world. It's weak everywhere as mentioned in a European Indoor Championship year.

10 Vaulters over 5.70 indoors. (US had none)
20 Vaulters over 5.60 indoors. (US had 2)

Face it it's a down indoor season all over the world the reason is many, but we can only guess unless you are in the camp of the vaulter and coach. Its easy to guess, but the reality is people have lives and things they need to worry about. There is no money in the US for pole vaulters. We have no club system paying our athletes so you are correct we do have the most vaulters at the youth level, but they fade quick when they realize 7k a year is excellent income for a pole vaulter. Secondly, anyone can pole vault in the US. With that being said the quantity may be high, but the quality isn't the greatest at times. Pole Vault in the US can be a recreational sport so take that % out.

Bottom line people are recovery from a Long 2010 season or people got hurt and thought why push my way back for an indoor season that doesn't matter. The core vaulters in the US are older so they have learned in order to to jump till October you need to delay things. Oh yeah Pan Am games this year as well. Others are putting in new technical changes or changing to different lengths of poles and those do in fact take time to match up. Or maybe just maybe they need to make money and work for a change.

Anyone who thinks its easy to jump 5.80 plus either never has, never developed anyone to that height or took at 5.78 guy and he cleared 5.80 making it seem easy. What Pawel did this indoor season really isn't normal (5.86 out of no where). Everyone has PR's the biggest question is how consistent are people. I would put the consistency of the top US vaulters up against most vaulters in the world. The only thing that matters is what you jump on the day that matters. US outdoor Championship, World Championships and Olympic Games. Since he was brought up Mark Hollis 6 meets over 5.60 and 10 meets over 5.50 only 1 meet indoors did he not jump at least 5.50. No big bar sadly it wouldn't stay up. It does say a lot when any meet you go to you can clear 5.60 on 8 different poles.

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:07 pm

Well I'll say it... I just don't think the talent level is as deep in the US as it used to be and this is compounded by a huge decrease in sponsorship opportunities.

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby ADTF Academy » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:19 pm

Exactly Becca its flat out hard to survive. Typically the collegiate system won't work with us they work against us. In the past 3 months I have heard of a hand full of athletes being kicked out of their college facilities because they don't want to work with college coach anymore and thus power trip sets in and they boot them.

To make matters worst I was just told last night that Travel Funding for women will be slowed in the Pole Vault because we are too deep to support new vaulters. In the past it was 4.35 for women and 5.50 for guys and you could at least be helped to travel to a series of meets in the US called developmental meets. Now these are the only meets in the US and everyone is going thus the title developmental meets is gone. These meets are using USATF money to fund travel and has caused the recent denied on helping recent college graduates travel.

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby VaultPurple » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:51 pm

That leaves us with coaches that take far removed info as the fact!!!


Name one, and what are they doing wrong? Name an elite pole vaulter that has a bad coach or that is being trained the wrong way.

Becca probably said it best. Right now you are considered fast if you are running over 9m/s down the runway. Back in the 80s and 90s everyone ran over 9.5.

You are right about the run thing DJ. But maybe the Petrov influx is hurting too, because too many coaches are concentrating so much on technique, people are just getting slow.


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