Should Shawn Barber's 5.87m Vault Count for any Records?

News from the collegiate ranks

Moderators: lonpvh, VaultnGus

Should Shawn Barber's 5.87m Vault Count for any Records?

The vault should not count and should not be a NCAA or Canadian record
10
63%
The vault should count as a Canadian record but not a NCAA record
3
19%
The vault should count as both a Canadian record and a NCAA record
3
19%
 
Total votes: 16

PV2020
PV Whiz
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:23 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Lázaro Borges

Should Shawn Barber's 5.87m Vault Count for any Records?

Unread postby PV2020 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:22 am

Athletics Canada posted that Shawn Barber broke the NCAA and Canadian record in the men's pole vault with a jump of 5.87m.

However it is hard to see it being an NCAA record because Barber was not competing for the University of Akron during the time of the meet, he was unattached. Most NCAA D1 schools are actually 'out of season' over the break in order to reserve practice days for the remainder of the year. The jump will also not stand for qualifying purposes because the pole vault expo does not meet the standards set by the NCAA to be a track and field meet.

So in my opinion, it is pretty clear that it should not be ratified as a NCAA record. Beyond being enrolled at Akron, Barber technically had no affiliation with the actual team or the NCAA during the meet. The main question is for the Canadian record. If the jump is good and the runway was surveyed properly, then it should stand as a record. However, you can watch the video and decide for yourself if the jump should have been called good or not.

Here is the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLkCmkv ... e=youtu.be

Some people may say that it was called good by the official so of course it is good. But these meets have been shown to have a little favoritism towards the athletes in letting things 'slide'. I have actually never seen volzing called except during a championship when one coach protest it. However I have never seen it used during a record jump either...

User avatar
Bruce Caldwell
PV Psycho
Posts: 1782
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:19 pm
Expertise: It is all about Pole Vaulting. I even catch the competitors poles!
Lifetime Best: 15'8"
Favorite Vaulter: Kjell Issakson, Jan Johnson
Location: DFW TEXAS
Contact:

Re: Should Shawn Barber's 5.87m Vault Count for any Records?

Unread postby Bruce Caldwell » Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:55 am


Decamouse
PV Great
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:43 pm
Expertise: Masters vaulter, coach, USATF Official
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Kate Dennison
Location: Bohners Lake, Wisconsin
Contact:

Re: Should Shawn Barber's 5.87m Vault Count for any Records?

Unread postby Decamouse » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:45 pm

How about being called at the World Championship - certain German vaulter then made it again without touching it -- proceed to moon a certain section of the stands -- so yes it does get called at even the highest levels
Plant like crap sometimes ok most times

User avatar
KirkB
PV Maniac
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:05 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter; Former Elite Vaulter; Former Coach; Fan
Lifetime Best: 5.34
Favorite Vaulter: Thiago da Silva
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Should Shawn Barber's 5.87m Vault Count for any Records?

Unread postby KirkB » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:51 pm

IAAF Rule 183.2d
An athlete fails if:
(d) during the vault, he steadies or replaces the bar with his hand(s).

Questions:

1. Does Rule 183.2d apply only to INTENTIONALLY steadying or replacing the bar, or does it also apply to INCIDENTALLY/ACCIDENTALLY touching it?

2. If INCIDENTALLY/ACCIDENTALLY touching it is OK, then does the official need to rule on whether touching it caused it to be steadied enough so that the bar didn't fall?

3. Was this meet an IAAF sanctioned meet?

4. Does the IAAF allow records to be set in single event meets?

5. Does the IAAF require officials in sanctioned meets to be accredited?

6. Was the official that officiated on that pit accredited by the IAAF?

Thanks for any clarifications.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

Decamouse
PV Great
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:43 pm
Expertise: Masters vaulter, coach, USATF Official
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Kate Dennison
Location: Bohners Lake, Wisconsin
Contact:

Re: Should Shawn Barber's 5.87m Vault Count for any Records?

Unread postby Decamouse » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:13 pm

USATF Rules - 183.5 has similar wording - failure if -- Vaulter steadies or replaces the bar with his/her hand(s)
Plant like crap sometimes ok most times

User avatar
KirkB
PV Maniac
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:05 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter; Former Elite Vaulter; Former Coach; Fan
Lifetime Best: 5.34
Favorite Vaulter: Thiago da Silva
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Should Shawn Barber's 5.87m Vault Count for any Records?

Unread postby KirkB » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:38 pm

PV2020 wrote:Athletics Canada posted that Shawn Barber broke the NCAA and Canadian record in the men's pole vault with a jump of 5.87m. ...

The only relevant links I can find are these:

http://www.trackie.com/track-and-field/Articles/new-canadian-pole-vault-record-for-shawn-barber/13052/
(not an official Athletics Canada site)

http://athleticsillustrated.com/recent-relevant-news/shawnacy-barber-new-canadian-pole-vault-record/
(not an official Athletics Canada site)

http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/canada/shawnacy-barber-267548
(not an official Athletics Canada site)
This iaaf.org site refers to the clearance as a "personal best", and not as a "Canadian record")

http://www.athletics.ca/files//Records/Canadian_Indoor_Senior_Records_MEN.PDF
This OFFICIAL Athletics Canada site lists the Canadian Indoor record as:
Pole Vault 5.75 Shawnacy Barber Albuquerque, NM 15.03.14

PV2020, can you please provide the link to where Athletics Canada posted that he broke the Canadian record? It seems to me that a governing body like Athletics Canada would distinquish between ratified and non-ratified marks.

Thanks.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

User avatar
KirkB
PV Maniac
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:05 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter; Former Elite Vaulter; Former Coach; Fan
Lifetime Best: 5.34
Favorite Vaulter: Thiago da Silva
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Should Shawn Barber's 5.87m Vault Count for any Records?

Unread postby KirkB » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:49 pm

PV2020, is this the link?

https://vine.co/u/1163631376680333312

It does imply that it's an official Athletics Canada site, as it shows the Athletics Canada emblem, but the URL shows that it's not a http://www.athletics.ca site.

On the official Athletics Canada site, there's no news about Shawn Barber in the NEWS tab (http://www.athletics.ca/news.asp) or anywhere else on the site.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

User avatar
KirkB
PV Maniac
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:05 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter; Former Elite Vaulter; Former Coach; Fan
Lifetime Best: 5.34
Favorite Vaulter: Thiago da Silva
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Should Shawn Barber's 5.87m Vault Count for any Records?

Unread postby KirkB » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:59 pm

This is the vid of Shawn clearing 19-0, just minutes before his 19-3 clearance.

https://vine.co/v/OddgOZxAUWm%20Shawn%20Barber%2019'0"%20make

Thanks to Bruce Caldwell for posting this.

It is also an UNRATIFIED Canadian Indoor Record.

It may have a better chance of getting ratified, due to the Volz controversy over his 19-3 clearance.

However, perhaps this 19-0 clearance wasn't measured metrically, so it may also be controversial or disallowed?

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

Alpo
PV Dweeb
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:32 pm
Expertise: Not much!
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Future WR holder Shawn Barber

Re: Should Shawn Barber's 5.87m Vault Count for any Records?

Unread postby Alpo » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:44 pm

Not sure how you can say he steadied the bar with his hand. Its also probably irrelevant whether this mark qualifies as an NCAA or Canadian record at this point. This will not be Shawn's best mark this year. My money says he will flirt with 6.09 before indoors is over.

User avatar
vaulterpunk
PV Whiz
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:10 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, College Coach

Re: Should Shawn Barber's 5.87m Vault Count for any Records?

Unread postby vaulterpunk » Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:24 pm

Hahaha
"spandex they're a privlage not a right!"

User avatar
rainbowgirl28
I'm in Charge
Posts: 30435
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:59 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, I coach and officiate as life allows
Lifetime Best: 11'6"
Gender: Female
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Casey Carrigan
Location: A Temperate Island
Contact:

Re: Should Shawn Barber's 5.87m Vault Count for any Records?

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:38 am


User avatar
KirkB
PV Maniac
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:05 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter; Former Elite Vaulter; Former Coach; Fan
Lifetime Best: 5.34
Favorite Vaulter: Thiago da Silva
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Should Shawn Barber's 5.87m Vault Count for any Records?

Unread postby KirkB » Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:30 pm

Thanks for the link, RainbowGirl.

Athletics Canada then links to another site (http://www.cleveland.com), which in return reports that:
Because he was competing as an unattached athlete at a preseason event, the mark is considered a collegiate record, but will not go into NCAA record books.


I'm a little disappointed that Athletics Canada isn't taking a more official position on this unratified Canadian record. Instead of getting into the social media news aggregation business, I would have personally preferred that Athletics Canada stick to processing and ratifying Canadian records, and leaving the social media aspects of our sport (hype, speculation, and rumour of unratified marks) to other websites.

Or at least caution readers that certain marks are unratified.

There's actually 2 new unratified clearances that Shawn made in this meet (19-0 and 19-3), and I question whether the 19-0 is even being considered by Athletics Canada as a possible new record (in case the 19-3 is deemed invalid due to Volzing)?

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!


Return to “Pole Vault - College”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests