NCAA Mandates new ASTM Box Collar by Dec 2013

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Re: NCAA Mandates new ASTM Box Collar by Dec 2013

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:06 pm

Thank you Superpipe :) PM me if you want a free "Reach for the Stars" t-shirt!

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Re: NCAA Mandates new ASTM Box Collar by Dec 2013

Unread postby superpipe » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:37 pm

Thanks Becca! I'd love one. Will do.
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Re: NCAA Mandates new ASTM Box Collar by Dec 2013

Unread postby vaultmd » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:35 pm

Chris,
Look more carefully in Section 3.

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Re: NCAA Mandates new ASTM Box Collar by Dec 2013

Unread postby superpipe » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:30 pm

vaultmd, Could you be more specific? I'm not sure what you are referring to. Section 3 is Terminology.
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Re: NCAA Mandates new ASTM Box Collar by Dec 2013

Unread postby superpipe » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:41 pm

VaultMD,

Are you referring to this definition in regards to requiring wings or not?

Image

If so, this whole section is just definitions of terminology, not rules themselves. I agree it's written oddly, but it's still just a definition, not a rule.

I'm just guessing here on your reference. Let me know what you meant. Thanks
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Re: NCAA Mandates new ASTM Box Collar by Dec 2013

Unread postby superpipe » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:28 pm

Dr. Peter McGinnis sent me a very nice email explaining the wording. The diagram and wording is correct. I was not paying enough attention to some of the "terminology" used in places. There's a min and max spec for the wings and a min and max spec for the collar arms. I was getting the two mixed up. Spec is all correct.
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Re: NCAA Mandates new ASTM Box Collar by Dec 2013

Unread postby vaultmd » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:07 am

Chris,

This may sound like semantics, but there are no rules in any ASTM Standard Specification. That's for the rules making bodies. We just define stuff.

You should become involved. We could use the help.

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Re: NCAA Mandates new ASTM Box Collar by Dec 2013

Unread postby carryabigstick » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:36 am

How is the box held in place? Is it bolted down? I would worry it moves around too much if the only thing holding it is the weight of the pit. Had to realign two collars at big college meets already this year even after five officials prepped the pit. Then what if you have to change directions quickly? Way too many questions remain to be a rule. This is like skipping from initial feasibility trials to FDA acceptance. I know my vaulters are all against anything in the box. Seems good in theory, but too many "just trust me's" right now.
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Re: NCAA Mandates new ASTM Box Collar by Dec 2013

Unread postby superpipe » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:09 am

vaultmd wrote:Chris,

This may sound like semantics, but there are no rules in any ASTM Standard Specification. That's for the rules making bodies. We just define stuff.

You should become involved. We could use the help.


Dr. McGinnis, aka VaultMD? I assume that's you right? I know the ASTM spec is not "rules", I was just referring to it like that since the box collar spec is now an "official rule" for NCAA. It's interesting that the NCAA says this:

"The padding must meet the most current ASTM Specification Standard"

My assumption is that statement will become a new rule in the Track & Field Rules book for NCAA. With that said, alot of people, coaches, AD's and officials would have to buy the ASTM box collar spec to see what the rule actually is. Not sure if Gill did this on their new box collar that meets the spec, but it would be good ( better if required by the NCAA rule ) if a permanently attached label was on a box collar that indicated it met the ASTM spec.

I would be interested in getting involved with the ASTM stuff for pole vault safety. When you have a chance, send me an email of how I could get involved. Traveling for me would be very tough with my IBM engineering day job paying the bills, my pole vault club ( wish it was my day job paying the bills :) ) and my family with two young kids. My wife already thinks my obsession with PV is not healthy :)

Thanks again for the clarification on the spec.


carryabigstick wrote:How is the box held in place? Is it bolted down? I would worry it moves around too much if the only thing holding it is the weight of the pit. Had to realign two collars at big college meets already this year even after five officials prepped the pit. Then what if you have to change directions quickly? Way too many questions remain to be a rule. This is like skipping from initial feasibility trials to FDA acceptance. I know my vaulters are all against anything in the box. Seems good in theory, but too many "just trust me's" right now.


You just haven't followed the years of testing that has already been done on this. There are no "just trust me's". This new collar by itself stays in place way better than basic collars. Simple solution for keeping it fixed in place. Super glue ( Gorilla super glue ) 2" wide industrial loop side velcro around the plant box. Super glue 2" wide industrial hook side velcro underneath the box collar. It will never move again. This is what I have done with my raised runway and my basic box collar.
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Re: NCAA Mandates new ASTM Box Collar by Dec 2013

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:58 am

Peter McGinnis = PVPhD ;)

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Re: NCAA Mandates new ASTM Box Collar by Dec 2013

Unread postby carryabigstick » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:07 pm

You just haven't followed the years of testing that has already been done on this. There are no "just trust me's". This new collar by itself stays in place way better than basic collars. Simple solution for keeping it fixed in place. Super glue ( Gorilla super glue ) 2" wide industrial loop side velcro around the plant box. Super glue 2" wide industrial hook side velcro underneath the box collar. It will never move again. This is what I have done with my raised runway and my basic box collar.[/quote]


Obviously glueing a box or other straps on the ground or area around the box is completely impossible if you have a double ended runway like a majority of facilities do....Especially if running two pits in same direction like an ncaa prelim. Happens everyday: vaulters/officials/coach show up to meet/practice.....assess wind......move pit to other box.....put plug in current box....run right over that box going other way. If you can can't move it and secure to the other end in less than 10-15 minutes without tools, it's useless. Is this going to lead to officials resisting turning the pit even more than they do already? That's not safe.
"pole vaulters are made in the last 4 strides"

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Re: NCAA Mandates new ASTM Box Collar by Dec 2013

Unread postby superpipe » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:04 pm

superpipe wrote:You just haven't followed the years of testing that has already been done on this. There are no "just trust me's". This new collar by itself stays in place way better than basic collars. Simple solution for keeping it fixed in place. Super glue ( Gorilla super glue ) 2" wide industrial loop side velcro around the plant box. Super glue 2" wide industrial hook side velcro underneath the box collar. It will never move again. This is what I have done with my raised runway and my basic box collar.



carryabigstick wrote:Obviously glueing a box or other straps on the ground or area around the box is completely impossible if you have a double ended runway like a majority of facilities do....Especially if running two pits in same direction like an ncaa prelim. Happens everyday: vaulters/officials/coach show up to meet/practice.....assess wind......move pit to other box.....put plug in current box....run right over that box going other way. If you can can't move it and secure to the other end in less than 10-15 minutes without tools, it's useless. Is this going to lead to officials resisting turning the pit even more than they do already? That's not safe.


You didn't read what I wrote. You super glue VELCRO. Collar pulls right out. Loop Velcro is attached around the plant box. Hook Velcro is attached to the underside of the collar itself. Simple, yet perfect solution. I've used this solution for years now.
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