Rule Interpritation

[Vaultref]

Just about every training document (for officials) I've seen in the past 18 years has those words. The quote posted was from a document found on the Officials page at the USATF web site. Anyone can access it.

Nearly all officials at major meets (NCAA, USATF, IAAF) are certified USATF officials. While rules are our business, correct interpretation of these rules and correct running of an event across the country is on main concern.

[SKOT]

thanks for the clarification!

[VaultMarq26]

I guess I assumed that the pole wasnt' falling toward the bar when the vaulter was catching it. Now i can see why it is a miss

[belmore]

I'm backing up the vaultref on this one for sure. I hate to see a vaulter break his or her neck trying to get out of the pit before a bar falls off a peg or trying to stop that pole from hitting the crossbar. My understanding of the rules, the pole is caught to keep it from striking the ground or hard surfaces, in other words to protect the equipment, not save the attempt. Witnessed some great jumps that were called foul because that ol' pole followed the vaulter into the pit. Heartbreakers, but Devereaux can back me up on this one, Bob Seagren had a world record disavowed because his pole passed UNDER the crossbar. Least that rule got changed. If you are still vaulting below your hand grip and this is not a knock against those vaulters who are, throwing the pole back has to be involved in your training until you are clearing higher. Don't get mad at the official, they are only trying to call it fair. Especially with a good Texas tail wind, it's hard to call.

[mowad1]

So if they changed that rule then why not the "rule", if there actually is one, pertaining to the pole hitting the bar. It is definitely unfair because it does not have any bearing on the object of the event. The object of the event is to use a pole to clear the bar. Is it impossible to judge whether or not someone has cleared a height regardless of the pole knocking the bar off. There is a major difference between being connected to the pole when it hits the bar and a clean fly away followed by the pole moving in the direction of the bar and hitting it.

If the honest effort to push the pole away were valid then they would still be calling jumps that involved the pole crossing the virtical plane fouls whether hitting the crossbar or not.

ARTICLE 2. A failed attempt shall be called when:
a. After the vault, the bar does not remain on the pegs because of
the action of the competitor while vaulting;

It does not say action of the pole.

Why are people so caught up in the suspence of a pole resting on a bar. Will it fall or will it stay. I say that if the vaulter clears the bar cleanly then it is a good jump.

I am quite sure that the current rule states that it is at the officials discretion to call jumps where the pole has dislodged the crossbar as makes. This is an obsurd effort to keep the role of the official as a god. Your jump is good because I saw it fit while someone else has a miss. You made an effort while your competitor did not try to push the pole away. Can people not see this insanity.

Oh, by the way, a perfect jump does not involve pushing the pole away or towards any particular direction. Why teach someone how to push the pole away when it just limits their ability to jump higher.

Also, it is possible to use a pole that could hit the crossbar while jumping above your grip. See if you can figure it out.......no, if you hold at 12'8" on a 14' pole and jump 13'1" then you are doing just that. Why would you do such a thing, you ask? If you don't have anything else to vault on or your take off ability gives you different results because of the higher sail piece. 13'1" is a pretty good jump for a female. How about 13'8" on a 15' pole to jump 14'1"? Darn good women could have that same problem.

The pole is a factor in the event but should not be. If it is a rule then it should be consistent. I am sure that Bubka would hate to return his 1997 World Championship Gold, a jump that is considered the highest that a human has traveled off a pole, a foul because the pole passed under the cross bar. Probably too hard to put into perspective but please try.

[Vaultref]

I guess there is no convincing you that the action of the competitor includes what he/she does with the pole.

You are correct in that it is a PV officials discretion to call a jump good even though the pole disloged the bar. Have to do that all the time during events with strong tail/cross winds. What makes it easy to call is what you did with the pole when you let go.

Please, if you want to help... submit a rule change proposal. Too late for this year, but what the heck, with solid arguments, rules can be changed. I thank the PV gods that they changed the rule to allow a pole to pass underneath the bar on a successful jump. That one just seemed to be grossly unfair.

[mowad1]

Thanks Vaultref. I think that I will submit a proposal on changing the rule. I guess that it is known to some officials that the pole is a part of the competitor but it is not clear to me. Also, who would I submit this proposal to and is there any deeper explanation that officials are privy to but are not in the NCAA rule book?

Yes, I agree that the pole should be able to travel where ever after a jump. The object afterall is to have the body clear the bar, not who can vault higher on a shorter pole or a pole that gracefully falls toward the runway after an attempt.

Is there still a rule that considers the effort of the vaulter in pushing the pole from the bar like on a windy day? Does this not sound like a continuation of the old rule preventing the pole from traveling under the cross bar?

[rainbowgirl28]

You should come to the USATF convention next year and sit in on the rules meetings. We need more pole vault people there.

[mowad1]

Is that the one that was in Jaksonville, FL or was that US Track Coaches Association? If not when and where are these meetings? I will seriously look into going.

[rainbowgirl28]

Is that the one that was in Jaksonville, FL or was that US Track Coaches Association? If not when and where are these meetings? I will seriously look into going.

I am referring to the one in Jacksonville. The NCAA coaches meetings were at the same place on M,T,W, and the USATF stuff was W,Th,F,Sat.

It's in Indy next year, the dates are up on the USATF website http://www.usatf.org/

This was my first year going. It was a great learning experience.

[mowad1]

Thanks Becca! Greatly appreciated,

Mario

[Vaultref]

... Also, who would I submit this proposal to and is there any deeper explanation that officials are privy to but are not in the NCAA rule book?
(snip)
Is there still a rule that considers the effort of the vaulter in pushing the pole from the bar like on a windy day? Does this not sound like a continuation of the old rule preventing the pole from traveling under the cross bar?

Here's a cut/paste from the NCAA rules book:

Call for Rules Changes Proposals
In an effort to include coaches in the rules process, the NCAA Men’s and
Women’s Track and Field rules subcommittee invites all NCAA head
coaches or other interested parties to submit rules proposals for discussion
at the subcommittee’s annual meeting in June. The subcommittee is interested
in your ideas and concerns relative to these rules – those you think
need to be changed, reinterpreted, added, deleted, etc.
Authors of rules proposals are required to secure signatures of support
from head coaches at two different NCAA institutions. Any proposal failing
to meet this requirement will not be considered by the committee.
Submit your rules proposal via mail or fax with the exact language you
would like to see in the rules book. Please include your name, institution,
mailing address, phone number and e-mail address, if applicable. The final
rules changes are at the discretion of the committee.
All completed proposals are due to Heather Perry at the NCAA national
office (P.O. Box 6222, Indianapolis, Indiana 46206-6222 or fax to 317/917-
6800) by May 1. If you have any questions about the proposal process,
please contact Ms. Perry (317/917-6141; hperry@ncaa.org). The committee
looks forward to reviewing your proposals and will make every attempt to
contact you after the June meeting about the status of your proposal.

If you do this, make sure it can be applied to NF and USATF codes as well. No sense having differences in what is a common event.

Yes, we have training materials produced by various people across the country. Some found right on the USATF site.
Yes, there is a rule regarding how to handle a jump on windy days.

Indy next year? I'll hold out until 2007 as Hawaii in December sounds nice to me!