Why doesn't UCS make poles for girls like it does for boys?

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bhcnj
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Why doesn't UCS make poles for girls like it does for boys?

Unread postby bhcnj » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:26 pm

UCS doesn't make a pole in between 12' and 13' which presents a problem for high school girls who are ready to move up in grip on their 12' pole but now have to hold nearly a foot down on a 13' pole, giving them much more resistance. As an example, say you have a 110 lb girl jumping on a 110lb 12' pole holding as high as she can, if she wants to go up 3" higher (standard handgrip), and she has to use the next UCS pole, she is adding 15+ lbs of resistance that she has to overcome which is about 15% of her body weight.

From what I've heard from several coaches, the way this gap is being dealt with is that they are either having their girls jump on poles below their weight or hold above the "legal tape mark" on the 12' pole. Unfortunately, none of these are legal in meets (or necessarily safe).

My question is what is the reasoning by UCS? Why isn't there a pole in between the 12' and 13' poles, a crucial step for high school girl vaulters? If I'm missing something, I'd love to know. I know that other brands make the 12'6" or 7" pole, I'm just wondering why UCS doesn't.

If anyone has experienced the same issue or has a reason/solution, please let me know.

Thanks.

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Re: Why doesn't UCS make poles for girls like it does for boys?

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:35 pm

Because when they started making poles, girls didn't pole vault. They haven't made many changes to their line, ever.

I jumped on 12'6 Pacers in college. I've noticed for girls who have rather average runway speed and a rather flat takeoff, 12'6 poles roll over MUCH better than 13' poles.

My two cents. :)

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Re: Why doesn't UCS make poles for girls like it does for boys?

Unread postby PV2020 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:36 pm

They seem to cater more towards colleges and elites than high school athletes, so it is not really a big deal because most people are not beginners.

In college there is no max hand grip rule, so most ladies will grip all the way up to the top on a stiffer 12' pole and then move to the 13' pole and only be a foot or less down.

So it is not really UCS that does not make a pole for the ladies, it is the high school max hand grip rule that prevents them from being used that way. When our college orders larger men's poles, they do not even put a max hand grip because they know high school athletes are not using them.

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Re: Why doesn't UCS make poles for girls like it does for boys?

Unread postby Victory Sports » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:20 pm

my UCS series,
10'8" 90, 100
11'6" 90, 100, 110, 120,130
12'1" - 110, 120, 130, 140,
13'1" 130, 135, 140, 145, 150, (155, 160 just ordered)
13'7" 160, 165,
14'1" 150, 155, 160, 165, 170, 175
and some 15's

First all those poles didn't just come in a year or two, I bought them in sets and built the series...
For 1 vaulter it is hard to fill in the gap sometimes and find the next pole.
What I have found with my latest girl on this series of poles as a sophomore she practiced and jumped on 11'6 110-130's and cleared 9Ft yr 1.

She continued to jump in the summer moved to my 12'1s while the 11'6s became her short run poles. She cleared 10ft as the summer went on.
She finally moved to the 12-130 and 140 and we tried the 13'-130. First few times she got rejected. found that 11"9" on a 13 spirit is about a true minimum grip.
We attempted a 12'6 135, 140 skypole and mystic, she didn't like it.

We focused on run, and plant, backed the run up some and her 12's before long were too small so they became again short run poles.
Entering the 2nd season she started vaulting on the 13's. Once it rolled over and she figured it out, she blew moved through every 13 I owned, jumped 11'8" in her second year.

I don't think spirits are going to make 12'7"s and i am 99% sure they are never moving the label up. But I would keep working on bigger 12's or keep working until they are too small or become short run poles. You could possibly buy a couple filler poles say a 12'1 110 spirit, to a 12'4" 110 altius, 12'9 110 altius and then up to 13's in spirits. just depends on cash flow and available poles. I see no harm in having transition poles from 12-13 spirits. Maybe find a couple to fill in the gaps. Best of luck to ya.

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Re: Why doesn't UCS make poles for girls like it does for boys?

Unread postby bhcnj » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:36 am

Victory Sports wrote:You could possibly buy a couple filler poles say a 12'1 110 spirit, to a 12'4" 110 altius, 12'9 110 altius and then up to 13's in spirits.


From personal experience, once I vault on one brand, other brands start to feel off to me. The different makes of the poles yield different bends and feelings when you're vaulting I've found. (if they were all the same there wouldn't be multiple companies out there making poles). My friend who coaches high school has several girls who are entering the heights where they're vaulting on the 12'1" in practice and then a meet comes and with their adrenaline pumping they're ready to move up a pole but there's nothing there for them in UCS's progression. So now they either have to vault on a different pole from the ones they've been using since they started or move up to a 13'1 and overcome a significant percentage of increased resistance.

From high school coaches I've talked to I've heard that this is an issue that they've experienced as well. I just find it odd that UCS doesn't make that specific pole, am I wrong that there's demand for it?

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Re: Why doesn't UCS make poles for girls like it does for boys?

Unread postby Skyfly » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:12 am

What height is your girl clearing jumping on a 12'1 pole at the top hand grip? If she's only using a pole at her weight, I would argue there is no need to change grip, rather go to a stiffer pole and work on improving technique. Once she starts jumping on a pole 20 pounds or more over her weight, she'll have no problem moving to 13' poles and gripping up 3 inches and probably more. My opinion, at the high school level, don't be in a hurry to raise grip because this often impedes development of technique. Stiffer poles and improved technique will lead to raised grips at a time that is appropriate for their development.

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Re: Why doesn't UCS make poles for girls like it does for boys?

Unread postby bhcnj » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:54 pm

You're all spot-on with the solutions/work-arounds and I've used them before (in training, the girls compensate the height by vaulting on heavier poles--120, 130 etc.), my biggest issue is simply that UCS doesn't seem to want to make a pole in between 12'1 and 13'1 for apparently no reason whatsoever. A colleague of mine has even called UCS (his daughter vaults and is that stage in her progression) and offered a premium for them to make the pole in question and they refused, at any price. From what he's said, his conversations with them have been less than helpful and the reasoning behind their refusal simply seems to be "we don't do that."

Again thank you for the solutions, I'm just frustrated with UCS's inexplicable refusal to make a pole that it would be logical for them to make.

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Re: Why doesn't UCS make poles for girls like it does for boys?

Unread postby coachcortazzo » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:53 pm

These are all great ideas on how to work around a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. Just because girls didn't jump when UCS started making poles doesn't mean anything. They jump now and their refusal to make their line consistent is causing jumpers that are trying to make a transition beyond the 12' pole to be at risk. If you are at a meet and your jumper has maxed out their hand grip on a 12' pole(which is lower on a UCS pole than every other manufacturer, even though virtually all of the sponsored jumpers for UCS hold above where UCS says is safe) and are jumping on a pole that is their weight ie. a 110 and they weigh 110, for them to get 3 more inches of grip on a 13' 110 they are being asked to have 15 pounds of additional resistance on their next jump! That is almost 14% of their body weight. you would NEVER ask a 170 pound boy to transition up 23 pounds in one jump. if you wanted to go up 5 pounds you would have to be using a 95 pound pole which is illegal in HS and the only other option would be to hold about the tape which is also illegal. THERE ISN'T A LEGAL TRANSITION FOR A HS JUMPER THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE A COMPLETLY UNREASONABLE GAP UP. You could go to a different brand, but now your kid is adjusting to a completely different jump. They make 6' increments at every other pole size just not the one that effects the most girls that are trying to progress from being above average to good. there are more girl jumpers in our conference than boys, so there is a huge market for this. UCS didn't make a 13'6' pole for a long time until there was enough clamoring for it then they did, maybe we just need more clamoring for a 12'6". If anyone has a UCS solution that would solve for the problem that I describe above for a 110 pound jumper that is legal, I would love to learn what it is.

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Re: Why doesn't UCS make poles for girls like it does for boys?

Unread postby Skyfly » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:54 pm

Again I ask, why is your move to have a kid go to a longer pole and raise their grip when they are only jumping a pole equal to their weight currently? If instead, you go to stiffer poles to the extent that they can safely use a pole 15-20 pounds above their weight, then not having a 12'6 pole will hardly matter. They will then be able to easily transition to a 13' pole rated at their weight. If you want to use guys as an example moving from a 14' to a 14'6 pole, having them go from a 14' 170 to a 14'6 170 is not going to the "next" pole. This is more like 2 poles. Yes, the gap is slightly more going from 12' to 13', but it's more than manageable. I do it with our girls all the time with little to no issue.

I will also ask again, what height is being jumped using the 12' pole? Unless the jumper is jumping 11' or more with that pole, then moving to a longer pole would not be my priority. Improving technique and using stiffer 12' poles would be my priority. Once again, when that is accomplished, going to a 13' pole will be a NON issue.

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Re: Why doesn't UCS make poles for girls like it does for boys?

Unread postby Victory Sports » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:05 pm

It is possible that a pretty fast and or tall girl could out grip a 12'1 Spirit pretty quickly Max hold is 11'7". Again I am a coach and weigh 170, but a 12'1" 200 would still do no good for me. I can see the need for a 12'7" much more efficiently than that of a 13'7" 13'-14 ft pole transitions for guys are not too tough in comparison. I hear what your all saying to and agree on all account. I would A) move to bigger, (If the girl isn't over jumping the sailpiece, may move so fast she has no time to turn up) B) move to short run working penetration for long runs C) Keep planting the 13's and it will happen as speed and ability become in sync.

But until then, from experience my girl jumped on a 12-140 spirit, needed bigger and more grip, a 12'4 140 altius carbon actually feels softer, but allows more grip, the 12'9" altius Carbon feels a 1/2 pole stiffer than the 12' 140 spirit, and it wasn't long after we worked grip and penetration on those 2 poles that the 13's became a player starting with 13-135 and up to now a 155 and 160... I love spirit poles, but yes there needs to be a transition and with a taller girl the 12-4 and 12'9" altius do that in a similar way a 12'6 pacer fx would. got to get the grip up to 11'9-11'11" for the 13's to roll over better for the girls. to do that, it will take more speed and a better plant. Again, hoping that your development with your athletes move forward. If there is a road block and no other road, got to get around it or power right through it. Blessings.

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Re: Why doesn't UCS make poles for girls like it does for boys?

Unread postby Skyfly » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:12 am

The other thing to consider is that the weight label only effects competition, NOT practice. You can always grip at 11'9+ on a 12' pole in practice. Using an increased grip and progressively stiffer 12' poles (as warranted) will help make the 13' transition easier because now you're not dealing with a grip change as much, only the sail piece change.

Side note, the label rule is horrendous...

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Re: Why doesn't UCS make poles for girls like it does for boys?

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:18 am

In defense of the original poster, UCS/Spirit poles in the 12' length are roughly 10lbs stiffer than Gill (Mystic, Skypole, Pacer) poles. I don't have any recent experience with ESSX or Altius, but my understanding is the 12'4 in those brands are also softer than 12' Spirits of the same weight rating. Of course the fact that Spirit only does 10lb weight increments at this length, when everyone else does 5lbs or less doesn't help either.

So asking a HS girl to jump on a 12' Spirit rated at or above her weight is no simple thing, let alone be on one 20-30lbs above her weight.

I just flat out don't recommend Spirit poles 12' and below for HS girls if there are other options available. There's nothing wrong with the poles. They are awesome poles. They just aren't awesome poles for HS girls of average physical abilities who have to abide by the weight rating and max handhold rules.


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