Help with Pole Progression

[GasPasser]

I could use some help in understanding pole weight ratings in putting together a pole progression. (for the moment, I'm not looking at flex number because I don't have multiple poles of the same length and weight)

(1) If I understand Jan's chart, moving my grip down 6 inches will add about 10 lbs of stiffness. So if I have two poles, one 6 inches longer, but rated 10 pounds lighter, they will have about the same stiffness when held at the same height. eg. 13-150 = 13-6-140 when both used with a 12'6" grip height. Please correct me if I'm I'm wrong.

(2) My second question/confusion has to do with at what grip height is this pole weight rating determined? I'm assuming it is for a grip just below the weight band? Is that correct? Why do some manufacturers (USC) put their weight bands well below the top of the pole? I haven't measured it, but it looks like the weight band on a 14' 1" pole has a grip height of about 13' 6". Whereas other manufactures 14' poles nearly give you a 14' grip height because their weight bands are near/at the top of the pole. Should I consider USC poles 6 inches shorter when comparing them to non-UCS poles? Can anyone help me understand this?

(3) Non-HS vaulters can hold above the weight band (as far as I know) if they wish. If I do this on a UCS pole, should I consider the pole about 10 pounds lower since I'm holding about 6 inches above the weight band? (assuming that the weight rating is for holding just below the weight band) For example, if I hold at the very top of a UCS 14-1 160# pole, am I essentially jumping on a 14-150?

(4) Lastly, where is the grip height measured from? Is it from the top of the top hand to the bottom of the tip?

Thanks!

[rainbowgirl28]

Disclaimer: Jan's chart really only applies at 13' and above. Below 13' it is only good within the same manufacturer. I find that sub 13' poles tend to have more variance in stiffness, for example, 12' and 11'6 Spirits tend to be ~10lbs stiffer than 12' and 11'6 Gill poles. I haven't played enough with modern ESSX and and Altius poles to say how their shorter ones compare.

(1) If I understand Jan's chart, moving my grip down 6 inches will add about 10 lbs of stiffness. So if I have two poles, one 6 inches longer, but rated 10 pounds lighter, they will have about the same stiffness when held at the same height. eg. 13-150 = 13-6-140 when both used with a 12'6" grip height. Please correct me if I'm I'm wrong.

Very roughly speaking, this is correct.

(2) My second question/confusion has to do with at what grip height is this pole weight rating determined? I'm assuming it is for a grip just below the weight band? Is that correct? Why do some manufacturers (USC) put their weight bands well below the top of the pole? I haven't measured it, but it looks like the weight band on a 14' 1" pole has a grip height of about 13' 6". Whereas other manufactures 14' poles nearly give you a 14' grip height because their weight bands are near/at the top of the pole. Should I consider USC poles 6 inches shorter when comparing them to non-UCS poles? Can anyone help me understand this?

The way they flex poles doesn't really have much to do with grip height. As far as I know, all manufacturers flex 13', 14', 15' and 16' poles in about the same way. What they then decide to do with this information, and where they then put their weight labels is up to them.

My personal experience as a coach is that I can use 13' and 14' Spirits and Gill (Skypole, Mystic, etc) interchangeably based on the weight ratings and flex numbers. Like if I have a 13'150 Spirit, 13'155 Skypole, 13'160 Spirit, if the flex numbers are fairly evenly spaced, my average HS kid doesn't have any trouble moving between them. That HS kid does have to keep their grip below the label. The poles are comparable holding at the same height (12'0, 12'6, etc) the label position is irrelevant other than it is the max a HS kid can hold.

(3) Non-HS vaulters can hold above the weight band (as far as I know) if they wish. If I do this on a UCS pole, should I consider the pole about 10 pounds lower since I'm holding about 6 inches above the weight band? (assuming that the weight rating is for holding just below the weight band) For example, if I hold at the very top of a UCS 14-1 160# pole, am I essentially jumping on a 14-150?

No, you should still consider it a 14'160. It would be more accurate to consider holding at the weight label like capping a 13'6 150, but again, it's not an exact science.

(4) Lastly, where is the grip height measured from? Is it from the top of the top hand to the bottom of the tip?

Thanks!

Yes, top of the top hand.

[GasPasser]

Thanks Becca.
Let me get a little more specific. Pole selection is very limited, vaulter is 170 lbs, currently gripping at 12' on a 12'9" 170 Altius, is ready to move to a higher grip, and is starting to blow through this pole at that grip. I'm assuming, that since the vaulter is holding about 6 inches below the weight band, may be close to 180 lbs on this pole. We have no 13' or 13'6" poles at all. I do have a four 14 foot poles to choose from: a 14-145 UCS (weight band 6 inches down from top), a 14-150 Pacer, 14-155 Pacer, and a 14-170 Pacer (all these Pacers have weight bands at top). If I use the 10 lbs per 6" rule, I believe a 12' 6" hand grip on these 14' poles would give me weights of about: UCS - 165# (12" down from weight band), 150 Pacer - 180# (18" down from weight band), the 155# Pacer - 185# (18" down from weight band), and the 170# Pacer - 200#(18" down from weight band).

So I'm thinking the next pole in this vaulter's progression, would be to go from gripping at 12' on the 12'9"-170# Altius, to grip at 12'6" on the 14'-150# Pacer. I believe the vaulter should have about the same relative feel of stiffness. Next step would be to move to a grip of 12'9" on the 14-155 Pacer. To get on to the 14-170 Pacer (which is the ultimate goal), the vaulter should get the grip up to 13-6. So I'm seeing a pole gap in progression going above a 12'9" grip. Does this sound reasonable?

Thanks

[rainbowgirl28]

Again, don't base anything on the weight band, base it on the total pole length, rounded down a little as needed (13'3 Altius = 13' pole for comparative purposes).

I would not raise the grip 6" at once. The other factor is that once you start gripping way down on poles, you get into the sailpiece, and the 6"/10lb rule no longer holds.

I would start with a 12' grip on the 14'145. If he moves the pole fast with little to no bend, raise his grip no more than 2-3" at a time. If he bends it a lot but barely gets in the pit, lower his grip. If he bends a lot and moves it fast, hold a few inches higher on the next pole.

A 14'145 Spirit will be about 5lbs softer than a 14'150 Pacer, it doesn't matter where the weight band is.