How soft should a "short run" pole be?

[Russ]

I'm working on a law review article about pv safety & liability issues, and I'm looking for some opinions on several issues. Will you please give me your opinions?

One case I'm trying to write about involves an accident that occurred when a college vaulter "blew through" and hit his head on a hard surface off the back of the pit. According to the case, at the time of the accident he was using a training pole that was rated as a 13'-120-150, although he weighed 175 lbs. Apparently, he ran too fast - faster than his normal "short run" approach speed.

My understanding is that it is common practice - accepted by coaches across the world - to use a soft pole and/or a training pole for "short run" vaults. We all recognize the utility of this type of practice.

I am looking for your opinions on a couple of questions. First, what do you vaulters & coaches out there think is the normal/industry-standard acceptable differential in pole weight for a short run? If a vaulter weighs 175 is it okay/acceptable to use a 120-150 for 5 steps, 4 steps, 3 steps? You understand what I'm asking, right? What is the differntial between your weight (or the weight-rating of your full approach pole) and the pole that you use for 3, 4, and 5 step short run vaults?

Second, should a college senior with at least 3 years of experience know better? Should he know not to use a full approach or not to run too fast using his "short run" pole?

Third, should it be incumbent on a coach to remind a vaulter with that much experience not to use a full approach or not to run too fast using a "short run" training pole? Or, in the alternative, should the coach, upon seeing the vaulter running too fast, have shouted out & told the vaulter to abort the vault? Or, perhaps, do you think that the coach would have assumed - upon seeing the vaulter's fast approach - that the vaulter must have switched poles and was probably using his normal "full approach" pole?

I have my own opinions about these questions, but I am very curious to hear what you vaulters and coaches think.

Thanks

[Decamouse]

wow - that was alot - without knowing what type of training pole anbd how high you can not make a statement about that incident - but going down 10-15 lbs for a short run would not be unrealistic for someone other than HS. They have the Weight Rule to abide by.

[Azbeachboy1]

if your going to run on a short run, just go down in pole length, not pole weight.

[RamVault09]

One case I'm trying to write about involves an accident that occurred when a college vaulter "blew through" and hit his head on a hard surface off the back of the pit. According to the case, at the time of the accident he was using a training pole that was rated as a 13'-120-150, although he weighed 175 lbs. Apparently, he ran too fast - faster than his normal "short run" approach speed.

My understanding is that it is common practice - accepted by coaches across the world - to use a soft pole and/or a training pole for "short run" vaults..... If a vaulter weighs 175 is it okay/acceptable to use a 120-150 for 5 steps, 4 steps, 3 steps? You understand what I'm asking, right?

Second, should a college senior with at least 3 years of experience know better? Should he know not to use a full approach or not to run too fast using his "short run" pole?

Third, should it be incumbent on a coach to remind a vaulter with that much experience not to use a full approach or not to run too fast using a "short run" training pole? Or, in the alternative, should the coach, upon seeing the vaulter running too fast, have shouted out & told the vaulter to abort the vault? Or, perhaps, do you think that the coach would have assumed - upon seeing the vaulter's fast approach - that the vaulter must have switched poles and was probably using his normal "full approach" pole?

Let us begin, shall we...........

First off, a training pole is normaly smaller than a "full approach" pole, obviously.....However, there is no set standard that says exactly how small the pole should be........at least none that I've heard of.

Secondly, I don't believe any vaulter should be vaulting on a pole with a weight rating smaller than that of the vaulter himself. ( As for the scenario given, what was that guy thinking???? or the coach, for that matter???? )

Thirdly, ( In my opinion ) NEVER should a vaulter attempt a vault at anything less than 100% !!!!! What sense is that, if a coach tells a vaulter to "lay off" a bit and don't run so hard? I think thats crazy! I'm far from haveing the the qualifications of a coach, but if I see my teamates slowing down on their run, JUST so they don't "blow through" the pole and out the back of the pit. I'll be the first, other than our coach, to say, change poles.....It's that simple! If one pole is getting to "soft" umm, wouldn't one think that you'd have to move onto a different pole?? I cringe when I hear that vaulters don't give it their all just to use a certain pole......

Ok, I'll also be the first to contradict myself in saying that it's not that simple......I know budgets are tight, and the possibility to start using a new pole is difficult for alot of people.......However, this situation has safety hazard written all over it !!!!!! ( If anyone thinks that saftey isn't an issue here, private message me, I'd love to hear what you have to say )

Ok, now that my ranting and raving is over......I can say this, when I first read this topic, I couldn't help but reply.......Folkes, to me this is a no brainer.......If this issue is really a problem, then education in the vault is more necessary than I thought.

Hope you don't take my OPINIONS the wrong way Russ, but I also hope that they helped you out.

~~ Pleasant Planting ~~

[Decamouse]

If you cut down from a full run to 4 or 5 lefts - or rights in my case - you are not going to use the same pole holding at the same position - a good vaulter - that leaves me out - may be using a poles ten or two pounds over his weight (actually alot of them really look at the flex number) on his full run - may drop a weight or cm or 5 or 6 mm when they drop down a left or two - depending on when in the season and what they are working on - since normally your weight doesn't change between vaults - but your spped at takeoff probably will if you shorten the run - now a Masters vaulter may actually vault on a pole lighter than his weight (don't run as fast anymore period). Does not mean it is dangerous (we are not talking about 20-40 lbs lighter).

[lonestar]

Just some examples:

One girl I coach vaults full approach (6 lefts) on a 12' 130. For short approach (3 lefts), she'll use an 11' 125-130. (She weighs 120).

Another girl vaults full approach (6 lefts) on a 13' 145. For short approach (3 lefts), she caps an 11' 140 or holds 11' on a 12' 130. (She weighs 135).

Another girl vaults full approach (6 lefts) on a 13' 150. For short approach (3 lefts), she holds 11' on a 12' 135. (She weighs 150).

I usually use a 14' 185 or 15' 175 from 6 or 7 lefts, but will use a 14' 165-170 from 3 lefts, and I weigh 165.

I agree with Bobby - you should not "hold back" to avoid blowing through a pole - you simply go up a pole.

Weight is an arbitrary number - it means absolutely nothing in terms of what the athlete can or can't handle. Flex and pole speed are everything. If the athlete has good pole speed and is landing in the middle, the flex is right for them no matter what the weight. If the pole is "squatting" or "mushing" and the athlete is landing shallow, then they're holding too high. If the pole is moving too fast but they're not holding too high, the flex is too soft.

It's so f-in simple people! Why do we need to have this bulls*** high school weight rule? Use common sense! I have high school girls - one of them an 11'er in her first year - who are at like 12% body fat who are considering anorexia and bulimia to drop weight to meet the rule! They sometimes jump on poles under their weight, but barely bend the pole more than 40-50 degrees and always keep their standards at 80 and land in the middle. Any rule that promotes athletes doing personal damage to their bodies is f-in bulls***!!!

The weight rule is nothing more than a conspiracy by pole manufacturers to sell more poles(shorter poles at or above the vaulters weight, when they could simply hold lower on longer poles under their weight). The top handhold band rule is nothing more than a conspiracy by pole companies to sell more poles (slightly longer poles at 6" instead of 1' increments between lengths). Nobody ever needed these rules in the 70's!

Let's protect our athletes and adopt the 3 Strikes Rule so we can put an end to this madness!!!

[vaultfan]

Russ, I believe Earl Bell gave us some useful information in his USATF Development video. He sez that from a 3 left run (six steps) you will probably want to start out using a handhold 4-5 inches lower than your last workout. You will probably use a pole two poles lighter than the big pole normally used in practice. Also, hold much lower than when making a long run.

But he also has some other suggestions. He sez that you should keep records for each length run. Three things to keep track of are:

1. How long was my run?
2. What pole was I using on that jump?
3. What grip height was I using?

He sez that you cannot trust your memory. Without the records, you start each practice from scratch and waste a lot of time and energy in the process.

Bell likes to start by using a bungee cord to give the vaulter some reference to see if he is coming up short or long just for safety reasons. After one jump, go to a regular crossbar.

He sez that the number 1 thing is to be sure the vaulter’s run is “on.â€Â

[Robert schmitt]

training pole that was rated as a 13'-120-150

This dosn't really advance the discussion or am I saying that a person should try this, but on a college sized pit I think I would have a hard time flinging myself off the back of a mat on a 13' training pole if I was trying.