big pole jump?

[trayoates]

so a while back i was jumping on a 15' 180 UCS spirit holding about 14'5" with a 15.5 flex. after i while i was blowing through it so we bought the next step up, a 15'6" 180 UCS but the flex was a 15.3 so i could only move my grip up an inch or two without mushing out the pole. so about 2 weeks ago my coach and i decided to switch from UCS to a Pacer Carbon FX which ive heard is lighter and ive always preferred pacers with their bend. the one we ordered was a 15'6" with 14.8-14.9, but we got a 15'6" with a 14.3 flex. it turned out to be a 190 on the gill chart. i know a guy who has a flex rating machine and he flexed them both for me to show where the flexes would be identical depending on where i held and i would have to jump up 10" to achieve the same flex on the bigger pole.

My question would be is this too big of a jump? do you think i will need an in between pole like a 14.8?

[coachjvinson]

This interests me quite a bit - I am by no means an expert and I look forward to working through this and learning a bit in the process - I am going to cut and paste a bit of what you posted to organize the info and comment on what some of my understanding is in this respect.

...was jumping on a 15' 180 UCS spirit holding about 14'5" with a 15.5 flex...
we bought the next step up...
15'6" 180 UCS but the flex was a 15.3

My understanding is that UCS flexes the 15 and the 15'6 on the same span or scale - basically these two poles are nearly identical as far as resistance or flex... sailpiece dimensions may vary, I'm not certain (someone feel free to clarify)

I am ball parking here, but I believe your equivalent flex compared to a 15'6 Gill would be around a 17.5 for the 15'6 UCS
In a perfect world, you should be looking for 16.8 (Gill Flex) approximate - for the "Next Pole Up" from the 15'6" UCS that you are jumping on-

So it appears that is a HUGE discrepancy in Flex and Pole

the one we ordered was a 15'6" with 14.8-14.9, but we got a 15'6" with a 14.3 flex. it turned out to be a 190 on the gill chart. i know a guy who has a flex rating machine and he flexed them both for me to show where the flexes would be identical depending on where i held and i would have to jump up 10" to achieve the same flex on the bigger pole.

My question would be is this too big of a jump? do you think i will need an in between pole like a 14.8?

I would say, YES you need a Couple of poles minumum between the two- I can confirm the above info in a day or two - someone on the forum may be able to confirm more quickly - I feel confident that I am accurate to at least .2

[VaultPurple]

so a while back i was jumping on a 15' 180 UCS spirit holding about 14'5" with a 15.5 flex. after i while i was blowing through it so we bought the next step up, a 15'6" 180 UCS but the flex was a 15.3 so i could only move my grip up an inch or two without mushing out the pole. so about 2 weeks ago my coach and i decided to switch from UCS to a Pacer Carbon FX which ive heard is lighter and ive always preferred pacers with their bend. the one we ordered was a 15'6" with 14.8-14.9, but we got a 15'6" with a 14.3 flex. it turned out to be a 190 on the gill chart. i know a guy who has a flex rating machine and he flexed them both for me to show where the flexes would be identical depending on where i held and i would have to jump up 10" to achieve the same flex on the bigger pole.

My question would be is this too big of a jump? do you think i will need an in between pole like a 14.8?

From what I have seen, the 15'1 and 15'7 UCS poles are the same 'stiffness' but the 15'7' poles have a higher sail peace and if you are tall it can be pretty beneficial. So if you keep the same grip going from the 15.5 to the 15.3 which is about a one pound difference. So as far as most high school vaulters are concerned they are the same pole. If you were to go to a 14.3 UCS that would be a five pound jump (about 5 pounds per 1.0 centimeter).

And from experience I have seen people think the Carbon FX poles are easier to get on. So although Gill calls it a 190 it is still probably no stiffer than a UCS 185. If anything with it being a slightly lighter pole and a different flex table, I would not be surprised if the 15'6 14.3 FX is too small for you.

[rainbowgirl28]

Gill and UCS flex their 15'6/15'7 poles on completely different spans, so you can't compare the flex numbers at all. If you know someone who can flex them both themselves, that can be very helpful, but ultimately you just have to try both and see how they feel. There's more to it than just the flex number.

[coachjvinson]

Gill and UCS flex their 15'6/15'7 poles on completely different spans, so you can't compare the flex numbers at all. If you know someone who can flex them both themselves, that can be very helpful, but ultimately you just have to try both and see how they feel. There's more to it than just the flex number.

Pretty sure they did this already - just went about it in a different manner -
they measured deflection to equal each other and adjusted the span
10" increase in span to get the same "flex" thats almost 4.4 difference

[coachjvinson]

What is your run distance and stride # with the 15'7 ucs?

[coachjvinson]

confirmed: your quote below tells the story

the one we ordered was a 15'6" with 14.8-14.9, but we got a 15'6" with a 14.3 flex. it turned out to be a 190 on the gill chart. i know a guy who has a flex rating machine and he flexed them both for me to show where the flexes would be identical depending on where i held and i would have to jump up 10" to achieve the same flex on the bigger pole.

Becca is correct in that you cannot accurately predict without bench flexing yourself and proprietary company design will affect performance. Vault Purple, thank you for confirming the sailpiece info.

It is probably not a stretch for me to state that the 14.3 will treat you like a "Rag Doll": if you cannot exchange this pole or you want to keep it as a goal to reach, look for a (15.0), (15.7) and a (16.4). you may be able to get around the (16.4) but you may be asking for trouble too, by doing so: you would be going from a (17.5+/-) to a (15.7) which could very well feel like 1.8 difference no matter how the poles are designed and manufactured.
IMHO
V

[coachjvinson]

To put it another way, your 15'6 (14.3) is like a 15' (11.9) so essentially on the 15' scale, you are going from a (15.3) to an (11.9)

IMHO
V

[coachjvinson]

Trey,
Oh, do tell...
Vaulters certainly aren't the adventurous type...
Did you "try it out"??? Just to see....

OR...

did reason and wisdom prevail...

A) what were the results....
OR
B) what is the plan...

No matter which you chose, I hope that all is going well...

The board is much too quiet as of late...

V

[coachjvinson]

"Example isn't another way to teach, it is the only way to teach." - Albert Einstein

[VaultPurple]

To put it another way, your 15'6 (14.3) is like a 15' (11.9) so essentially on the 15' scale, you are going from a (15.3) to an (11.9)

IMHO
V

I do not agree with this.

Most companies, although they can not be held one beside the other, do make their systems remotely the same when it comes to the weight rating. Although none of the athletes I currently coach switch brands because we are lucky enough to have a complete UCS series, I have went from brand to brand before and noticed marginal changes not massive changes. So like a 5-10 pound difference.

What you posted above is close to a 20 pound difference. UCS makes their 15' and 15'7 poles on the same flex rating so had he not been changing brands and the 15'6 was a UCS he would only be going up 5 pounds. Now with switching brands away from UCS, my prediction being someone that only uses UCS poles in the past few years, would be that by going to a 14.3 15'6 of another brand it is probably very close or just 5-10 pounds stiffer.

I really think Tray is over thinking things. I saw his video from this weekend at JDL and he talked about not wanting to switch poles. Early in the season when you are in small meets and you feel like a pole may be small, just use that hype and adrenalin to your advantage. If you jump 15'6 and your first attempt at 16' the pole feels small, just go to the next stick. You have already jumped 16' so what is the point of trying to stay on the same pole one more time to get 16? I am sure you would rather go 15'6, up stick at 16', then go 16'6.

When I tell an athlete to go up poles when they are 'equaling' their PR to a pole bigger than what they were on when they PRd they always ask why? My response is always, would you rather equal your PR today or PR by a foot next week? As long as they can get some relatively good jumps on the new pole, even if they do not clear the height, they will usually get a pretty good jump on it the next meet!

[coachjvinson]

confirmed: your quote below tells the story

...flexed them both for me to show where the flexes would be identical depending on where i held and i would have to jump up 10" to achieve the same flex on the bigger pole.