big pole jump?

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coachjvinson
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Re: big pole jump?

Unread postby coachjvinson » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:32 am

VaultPurple wrote:
coachjvinson wrote:To put it another way, your 15'6 (14.3) is like a 15' (11.9) so essentially on the 15' scale, you are going from a (15.3) to an (11.9)

IMHO
V
I do not agree with this.


I guess I am not clear on what you are saying...

Just how exactly is a 15'6 (14.3) gill flexed pole not equal to a 15' (11.9) ??
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Re: big pole jump?

Unread postby VaultPurple » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:41 am

coachjvinson wrote:
coachjvinson wrote:confirmed: your quote below tells the story

trayoates wrote:...flexed them both for me to show where the flexes would be identical depending on where i held and i would have to jump up 10" to achieve the same flex on the bigger pole.



He said he gripped 14'5 and would need to grip up 10 inches to have the same flex? So gripping 15'3 would make it equal flex? That would just make it the same as a UCS 15' 195. But you have to think of how things are flexed and how they react depending on where the sail piece is. I honestly just do not believe a 15'6 190 Carbon FX is the same stiffness as a 15' 195 UCS pole (maybe on a flex chart but not truly when jumping on it). My guess is it is more like a 15'185 to 190 in the way it behaves.

Honestly he will just not know until he gets hyped in a meet and tries to plant the pole. Even some poles that act the same for one person as far as stiffness will not act the same for others depending on where they are gripping and how much they weigh themselves.

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Re: big pole jump?

Unread postby coachjvinson » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:51 am

VaultPurple wrote:
That would just make it the same as a UCS 15' 195.



??
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Re: big pole jump?

Unread postby coachjvinson » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:08 am

VaultPurple wrote:
coachjvinson wrote:To put it another way, your 15'6 (14.3) is like a 15' (11.9) so essentially on the 15' scale, you are going from a (15.3) to an (11.9)

IMHO
V



Most companies... do make their systems remotely the same when it comes to the weight rating... I have went from brand to brand before and noticed marginal changes not massive changes. So like a 5-10 pound difference.


okay..

VaultPurple wrote:What you posted above is close to a 20 pound difference.


yes...

VaultPurple wrote: UCS makes their 15' and 15'7 poles on the same flex rating so had he not been changing brands and the 15'6 was a UCS he would only be going up 5 pounds.


This is where you have lost me, please clarify...
Specifically...

VaultPurple wrote:...had he not been changing brands and the 15'6 was a UCS he would only be going up 5 pounds.
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Re: big pole jump?

Unread postby VaultPurple » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:53 am

coachjvinson wrote:
VaultPurple wrote:
That would just make it the same as a UCS 15' 195.



??


He quoted that to have an equal flex with the new pole he would need to go up 10 inches.

Since he was gripping 14'5 that would mean he would be gripping 15'3 on the new pole.

If he had a system to flex the poles, and a 15'3 grip on the 15'6 14.3 Carbon FX was the same flex as a 14'5 on the 15'6 15.3 UCS pole he has. That was the interpretation I got from him saying a 10 inch difference was the same flex.

So I just used that comparison to think what UCS pole gripping 10 inches higher would be about the same flex as a 15'6 15.3 (180lb). And the UCS pole that would be the same flex as the 15'6 15.3 gripping 10 inches higher would be the 15'6 195 (or about 12.3.. 1.0 per 5 pounds).

So this says the two poles are 15 pounds apart.

I was just saying from experience. I have seen that a 15 pound jump between a UCS to a Carbon feels more like a 5 to 10 pound jump between two UCS poles.

ie. Most people that switch from UCS poles to Carbon poles, need to go up in weight rating when they switch to the carbons.

So although when flexing the poles you get a 15' pound difference, with the way the sail pieces are set up and the way the material bends and other factors contributing to how the pole feels, I think if he were to make the jump in poles, it would not feel like 'that' much of a difference.

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Re: big pole jump?

Unread postby coachjvinson » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:02 am

That is well stated...

The 10" comparative flex sounds HUGE...


Thanks for clarifying
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Re: big pole jump?

Unread postby coachjvinson » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:38 pm

VaultPurple wrote:So I just used that comparison to think what UCS pole gripping 10 inches higher would be about the same flex as a 15'6 15.3 (180lb). And the UCS pole that would be the same flex as the 15'6 15.3 gripping 10 inches higher would be the 15'6 195 (or about 12.3.. 1.0 per 5 pounds).

So this says the two poles are 15 pounds apart.


coachjvinson wrote:
VaultPurple wrote:
coachjvinson wrote:To put it another way, your 15'6 (14.3) is like a 15' (11.9) so essentially on the 15' scale, you are going from a (15.3) to an (11.9)

IMHO
V


I estimated 11.9 and you estimated 12.3
speaking in UCS flex terms
sounds pretty close...
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V
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Re: big pole jump?

Unread postby trayoates » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:04 pm

sorry i took so long to reply but thank you guys for the detailed responses! okay just some numbers:

7 STEP (longest run): 92'6" while holding 14'5" on 15'6"180 UCS

i havent worked on an 8 step but i feel that one is necessary to make the jump to the bigger pole. i estimated it at around 106' but i still need to run it back

and yeah, i definetly should have moved up poles at JDL. i have a meet in the crossplex the 29th and im going to get on it there NO EXCUSES!


my only problem has been my chronic "under syndrome" and i know if im the slightest bit under on that carbon that itll just rip me up. so these following weeks im going to be working on quickening my last steps and planting high and early to hit a good takeoff. im pretty confident in the rest of my jump

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Re: big pole jump?

Unread postby altius » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:36 pm

"depending on where they are gripping and how much they weigh themselves."

And perhaps how efficient their technique is????
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

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Re: big pole jump?

Unread postby altius » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:41 pm

"i havent worked on an 8 step but i feel that one is necessary to make the jump to the bigger pole. I estimated it at around 106' but i still need to run it back?????? What does that mean -please explain.

Why would anyone ever jump from 14 steps? You should doing pole runs every week from 16 steps - depending on your situation this could 1x12/15 every week or 2x. These should be on the track - obviously not attempting to jump until you have consistency of around 6" on both your mid and take off. Then pick a day with good winds and get onto the runway with a relatively soft pole and low grip - and get off!
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

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Re: big pole jump?

Unread postby coachjvinson » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:09 pm

altius wrote:"i havent worked on an 8 step but i feel that one is necessary to make the jump to the bigger pole. I estimated it at around 106' but i still need to run it back?????? What does that mean -please explain.

Why would anyone ever jump from 14 steps? You should doing pole runs every week from 16 steps - depending on your situation this could 1x12/15 every week or 2x. These should be on the track - obviously not attempting to jump until you have consistency of around 6" on both your mid and take off. Then pick a day with good winds and get onto the runway with a relatively soft pole and low grip - and get off!


This is some of the most sound advice that could be given and received. While many secondary athletes may loathe pole run/carry/plant drills, the consistency and efficiency that it develops sets apart the men from the boys... Also, I would do your best to find a pole smaller than the 14.3 - beg, borrow, and - well don't steal...
IMHO
V
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