Tarasov vs. Bubka

A forum to discuss pole vaulting related things of a historical nature.

who do you think had better technique?

Tarasov
6
32%
Bubka
13
68%
 
Total votes: 19

starkey480
PV Whiz
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:00 pm
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie

Tarasov vs. Bubka

Unread postby starkey480 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:56 pm

who do you think was a greater technician?

User avatar
joebro391
PV Follower
Posts: 515
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:49 am
Expertise: Current College Vaulter (Samford University)
Lifetime Best: 15'6
Favorite Vaulter: Duplantis, Borges, Bubka
Location: Wherever the Competition is
Contact:

Re: Tarasov vs. Bubka

Unread postby joebro391 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:15 am

That's a real toughy. In short, Tarasov kept his trail leg straighter throughout the vault, but Bubka's aggression just defeats all...'nough said haha. -6P
PR: 15'6 !!PETROV/6.40 MODEL!! http://www.youtube.com/user/joebro391

starkey480
PV Whiz
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:00 pm
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie

Re: Tarasov vs. Bubka

Unread postby starkey480 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:41 am

ya i was sorta thinking the same thing. the thing i like about tarasov though is how high his pole bend is but that might merely be because he has such a high reach and takeoff angle

nielsalofsen
PV Beginner
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:02 pm
Expertise: Club Coach
Lifetime Best: hahaha
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Sergei Bubka

Re: Tarasov vs. Bubka

Unread postby nielsalofsen » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:22 pm

Well...I think...the run-up and take-off from Bubka is definitely better! Look at the first steps of Tarasov => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vc99zgAKtE (start at 5:20).
See Bubka here => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vc99zgAKtE. He runs with very high knee's, reactive groundcontact (bouncy running), high hips, shoulders back and a steady increase of the frequency.
And I wonder if the straight knee is so much better perse. He has a slower inversion than Bubka. With a slightly bend knee (second phase of the inversion after passing the chord), he could have inverted faster en have a higher pushoff. Especially when you're as tall as Tarassov and you have more mass at the far end of the lever.

How do you say this in English...IMHO?

starkey480
PV Whiz
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:00 pm
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie

Re: Tarasov vs. Bubka

Unread postby starkey480 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:59 pm

ya bubka had a far more dominate run over tarasov i was more of talking about in terms of on the pole....

User avatar
kcvault
PV Pro
Posts: 333
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:41 pm
Expertise: College vaulter, post collegiate vaulter, BA kinesiology,
Lifetime Best: 5.40m
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Annie Burlingham
Location: Turlock Ca

Re: Tarasov vs. Bubka

Unread postby kcvault » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:59 am

TARASOV!-The better technical jump

However the only thing that matters is who jumped higher when determining who's better.

--Kasey

User avatar
KirkB
PV Rock Star
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:05 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter; Former Elite Vaulter; Former Coach; Fan
Lifetime Best: 5.34
Favorite Vaulter: Thiago da Silva
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Tarasov vs. Bubka

Unread postby KirkB » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:34 am

kcvault wrote:TARASOV!-The better technical jump

However the only thing that matters is who jumped higher when determining who's better.

Not really. You can train technique easier than you can train speed. So if Tarasov had better technique (I don't know this, but if you say so) and Bubka had better speed, then if YOU want to jump as high as possible, you would be better off emulating Tarasov's technique. All the training in the world won't turn you into a world-class sprinter ... you'll hit close to your top end fairly early in your career ... but IMHO, technique can be drilled into you ... you can ALWAYS get better at it.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

Kholev
PV Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:16 pm
Expertise: Elite Vaulter, Elite College, Masters Coach
Lifetime Best: 5.72m
Favorite Vaulter: Bubka
Location: Long Beach

Re: Tarasov vs. Bubka

Unread postby Kholev » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:36 pm

Bubka of course. With more than 40 jumps over 6m and a max electronically measured clearance of 6.39m, Tarasov has no chance. I love it when people explain dominance by shear strength and power. Bubka came very close to the ideal technique. Measurements of the technique are not how straight the take of leg is or how elegantly the vaulter looks on the runway. It measures by the ability to achieve maximum speed at take off, stiffness of the pole, grip height and the ability to fly over that grip. The combination = result = technique. There are many athletes that can squat/bench press/sprint better than Bubka. He was able to achieve the greatest combination of technique/mental toughness/physical strength than anyone else. Don’t forget that the ability to jump highest under stress of big meets is also a measure of technique.
Bubka's consistency with average yearly results about 20cm over Tarasov's show how sold his technique was. To give credit to Tarasov, Bubka is the only one to better him.

User avatar
KirkB
PV Rock Star
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:05 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter; Former Elite Vaulter; Former Coach; Fan
Lifetime Best: 5.34
Favorite Vaulter: Thiago da Silva
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Tarasov vs. Bubka

Unread postby KirkB » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:49 am

Kholev wrote:Bubka of course. With more than 40 jumps over 6m and a max electronically measured clearance of 6.39m, Tarasov has no chance. ...

The legend (fable) continues! :no: :confused:

Are you referring to the measurements taken by the Japanese biomechanics, who estimated a hip-height of 6.40 on "that jump"?

I don't know where you get PRECISELY 6.39 from, since they said "6.40". And I love it when you say that its "electronically measured" ... as if that gives more credibility to the alleged 6.39 "measurement". If it was truly "electronically measured", it would have been as "hands-off" as an electronically timed race. Clearly, that's not the case.

Can you provide more details on exactly who said 6.39, and what his proof is? :idea:

The way I see it, Bubka MIGHT have had something in the neighborhood of 6.40 on that jump, but he would have come down on the bar ... since his hip height wasn't EXACTLY above the bar. Or do you agree that he would ALSO have had to set his standards somewhere else other than where they were ON THAT JUMP? :confused:

And then if the placement of the standards was optimized, are you CERTAIN that he wouldn't have hit the bar off ON HIS WAY UP! :confused:

Lastly, I sorta buy your argument ... but not based on the alleged 6.39. What's wrong with just saying his OFFICIAL 6.15 was significantly higher than Tarasov's OFFICIAL 6.05 PR? That's still 10 cm higher! Impressive ... without having to talk about "unofficial hip-height", allegedly measured "electronically" (even tho he didn't actually clear a BAR set at 6.39).

Don't take my rant personally. I just think comparisons should be made with OFFICIAL JUMPS. Maybe Tarasov had some good practice jumps over 6.15 too ... but didn't get the publicity that Bubka's astrounding "clearance" got ... (HUGE quotes around CLEARANCE) ... should we be counting those?

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

Kholev
PV Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:16 pm
Expertise: Elite Vaulter, Elite College, Masters Coach
Lifetime Best: 5.72m
Favorite Vaulter: Bubka
Location: Long Beach

Re: Tarasov vs. Bubka

Unread postby Kholev » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:16 pm

KirkB, I agree with your argument. I have no idea how much above the bar Tarasov was at his best jumps. You are right; comparisons should be made based on official results to avoid gray area debates. Fortunately our sport unlike figure skating has very clear and obvious definition of a successful attempt. Otherwise we can get into arguments of validity of jumps where bar stayed despite vaulter landing on it (I think Philip Collet had few of those)

Bubka is still a better jumper based on a combination of:
- Pole stiffness
- Grip height
- Max push over the grip
- Average of top 10-20 best marks
- Number of major championships won, etc.

My main point is that the technique is not just an ability to jump really high once or twice, but also a consistency of performance over the years tested by injuries, competition pressures and other factors. Both Tarasov and Bubka are great athletes and technicians, but Bubka is better.

User avatar
KirkB
PV Rock Star
Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:05 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter; Former Elite Vaulter; Former Coach; Fan
Lifetime Best: 5.34
Favorite Vaulter: Thiago da Silva
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Tarasov vs. Bubka

Unread postby KirkB » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:38 pm

Kholev wrote: ... technique is not just an ability to jump really high once or twice, but also a consistency of performance over the years tested by injuries, competition pressures and other factors. Both Tarasov and Bubka are great athletes and technicians, but Bubka is better.

All excellent points! :yes:

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

starkey480
PV Whiz
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:00 pm
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie

Re: Tarasov vs. Bubka

Unread postby starkey480 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:36 pm

but didnt tarasov stop jumping after he won meets? he rarely ever went for a pr, he just did what it took to win the meet


Return to “Pole Vault - Historical”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests