Looking for old footage/information on kjell isaksson(FOUND)

[golfdane]

(3) Courage to jump into the air even without the contact with the pole, and also when the cross bar is still far from the grip point. [KB: Wow! Free takeoff documented in 1973 by Wolfgang Nordwig! Altius, take note!]

I somehow feel, that Nordwig is talking about the fly-away, and not the take-off. That Isaksson's technique offered that much more return from the pole, that the vaulters had to get used being catapulted over the bar and still maintain control on the top-end.

[joebro391]

I somehow feel, that Nordwig is talking about the fly-away, and not the take-off. That Isaksson's technique offered that much more return from the pole, that the vaulters had to get used being catapulted over the bar and still maintain control on the top-end.

you still need to take off, to do a flyaway though. and it's pretty clear in the video that isaksson was taking off, freely. -6P

[golfdane]

I somehow feel, that Nordwig is talking about the fly-away, and not the take-off. That Isaksson's technique offered that much more return from the pole, that the vaulters had to get used being catapulted over the bar and still maintain control on the top-end.

you still need to take off, to do a flyaway though. and it's pretty clear in the video that isaksson was taking off, freely. -6P

It's this phrase that puzzles me: "and also when the cross bar is still far from the grip point."

I agree, that Isaksson in many jumps appears to have a free take-off, but I feel Nordwig isn't referring to the take-off from the ground. I could be wrong though, but the crossbar has less relevance on the take-off (I sincerely doubt, that any jumper attempting to take-off freely feels, that they are significantly further away from the crossbar, and that this should somehow intimidate them in any way).

[dj]

good morning,

hye

great clips.. and some more good ones come up..

for me it would be interesting to know what Kjell said (just before the two young boys held the pole) when he was showing the other vaulter where he hit at the 6 step ("MID") mark... did he give a "distance" like 16.40 meters or just was telling him how far behind it he was???

dj

this is from my earlier post....

still hoping someone can tell me what was said at this point.... please..

dj

[golfdane]

good morning,

hye

great clips.. and some more good ones come up..

for me it would be interesting to know what Kjell said (just before the two young boys held the pole) when he was showing the other vaulter where he hit at the 6 step ("MID") mark... did he give a "distance" like 16.40 meters or just was telling him how far behind it he was???

dj

this is from my earlier post....

still hoping someone can tell me what was said at this point.... please..

dj

This is as good as I can guess/hear (I think the other vaulter might be Ingemar Jernberg):
Jernberg (abandons the jump): Nej.... Långt ifrån. (No.... far from.)

Isaksson: Här var du. Du er lite bakom. Ungefär 15,60m. (You were here. You are a bit behind. About 15,60m)

Jernberg: Jeg föler jeg kommer igjennom lite bättre. (I feel I get more penetration)

Isaksson: Forsök at iställat (för at) avbrota... Nu släpper du, så tar du restan och så flygar du... Bli kvar istället, komma up med föttarne, nu gör du et litet hopp.
(Try, instead of aborting... Now let go, go through with it and you'll fly. Stay behind instead, get you feet up, and you'll get a little jump (think he's referring to a push off/fly away)).

Jernberg: Bli bakom? (Stay behind?)

Isaksson: Ja, så du seglar upåt med fötterna. Få en liten top på där. (Yeah, you'll sail upwards with your feet. Get a good top there)


They start talking with the boys. I love the remark to the second boy who almost manages to raise the pole: Och så springar du... (and then you run).


Edit: Saw the video again, and I got the two guys mixed up. Assuming that the other vaulter is Ingemar Jernberg.

[dj]

good morning,

thanks...

for a six stride mark....15.60 matches up with a 15-2/4.65m grip and a 5.15/5.20m ish jump...

that seems reasonable for those jumps.. for the day and practice..

thanks again..

dj

[KirkB]

I somehow feel, that Nordwig is talking about the fly-away, and not the take-off. That Isaksson's technique offered that much more return from the pole, that the vaulters had to get used being catapulted over the bar and still maintain control on the top-end.

you still need to take off, to do a flyaway though. and it's pretty clear in the video that isaksson was taking off, freely. -6P

It's this phrase that puzzles me: "and also when the cross bar is still far from the grip point."

I agree, that Isaksson in many jumps appears to have a free take-off, but I feel Nordwig isn't referring to the take-off from the ground. I could be wrong though, but the crossbar has less relevance on the take-off (I sincerely doubt, that any jumper attempting to take-off freely feels, that they are significantly further away from the crossbar, and that this should somehow intimidate them in any way).

(3) Courage to jump into the air even without the contact with the pole, and also when the cross bar is still far from the grip point. [KB: Wow! Free takeoff documented in 1973 by Wolfgang Nordwig! Altius, take note!]

I somehow feel, that Nordwig is talking about the fly-away, and not the take-off. That Isaksson's technique offered that much more return from the pole, that the vaulters had to get used being catapulted over the bar and still maintain control on the top-end.

6P and GolfDane ... I'd like to try to clear up these misunderstandings. First off, here's Ganslen's question, and here's Nordwig's reply:

WHAT ARE THREE OR FOUR MAJOR FACTORS IN YOUR OPINION WHICH MAKE IT DIFFICULT OR IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE VAULTER TO ACHIEVE SUCCESSFUL PENETRATION?

NORDWIG: Vaulting with a "suitable" pole. A too soft pole is good for a beginner; he can learn to feel the bending and the stretching. The pole gives him enough time. A too hard quick pole (rigid) destroys "the feel of the vaulting." (2) The vaulter must acquire the feel of jumping with the pole and not against it or in spite of it. (3) Courage to jump into the air even without the contact with the pole, and also when the cross bar is still far from the grip point. [KB: Wow! Free takeoff documented in 1973 by Wolfgang Nordwig! Altius, take note!]

I've omitted Isaksson's reply to this question, becuz Nordwig's reply is totally independent of Isaksson's reply. You both somehow mixed the 2 up, thinking that Nordwig's reply was about Isaksson's technique. It's too bad that we don't have a clear statement from Isaksson re free takeoff ... but (surprisingly) we still have a clear statement from Nordwig re free takeoff. Nordwig was talking about HIS OWN technique ... not Isaksson's.

At first glance, Nordwig isn't 100% guaranteed to be talking about is own technique. This is implied, as he was asked about "THE VAULTER", which might be construed to mean vaulters in general.

But I think it should be rather obvious that he's thinking about his own technique (Nordwig's own technique) when he replies. After all, Dr. Ganslen is querying these vaulters to get inside their heads ... to understand how THEY have become world class. So it's more probable that he's talking about (defending) his own technique rather than someone else's.

Sidenote: Nordwig's technique was distinctively different that Isaksson's in a number of ways ... from my personal observations.

You might also argue that Nordwig was only talking about his INTENT ... that he INTENDS to have the "courage to jump into the air even without the contact with the pole ...". So Nordwig's statement doesn't PROVE that he had a free takeoff ... but I think it proves that he STROVE for a free takeoff ... just like Bubka STROVE ... or INTENDED ... to have a free takeoff.

Now re Nordwig's quote "and also when the cross bar is still far from the grip point" ... this is confusing to me too ... but I don't think it changes the meaning of the first part of his sentence ... becuz he says "and also ...". I think it's an additional thought that perhaps should have been written separately ... in a clearer sentence.

Does he mean when the "cross bar is still far from the grip point" HORIZONTALLY or VERTICALLY? Nordwig didn't speak English, so there could be a problem in someone translating this for him. If the translator didn't understand Nordwig's technique, then he could have easily translated it incorrectly ... or at least too vaguely.

Remember that the crux of the question is about PENETRATION. So maybe he meant that it takes courage to penetrate in towards the pit, instead of swinging more upwards (less penetration). So if the bar was way higher than his grip (as it was when he set his WRs), then he might have reasoned that it takes courage to continue FORWARDS penetration, knowing that at some point you have to convert that forwards momentum into upwards momentum. This would match Nordwig's experience of using fairly stiff poles and not bending them much ... so the swing/penetration path of his CoM was more "direct-line-to-pushoff" than that of vaulters on softer poles (like me).

If he was referring to the HORIZONTAL distance between his grip and the bar, then it COULD relate back to being brave enough to PENETRATE without fear of stalling out (onto the bar - when there's quite a horizontal gap between the grip and the bar). But my strong suspicion is that he was referring to the VERTICAL distance of the bar above his grip.

Penetration is in the BOTTOM half of the vault, so I don't think he was talking about his fly-away ... or anything else in the TOP half of his vault. I think he was only talking about "free takeoff" and "penetration".

Maybe someone else has another way to interpret this?

Kirk

[golfdane]

good morning,

thanks...

for a six stride mark....15.60 matches up with a 15-2/4.65m grip and a 5.15/5.20m ish jump...

that seems reasonable for those jumps.. for the day and practice..

thanks again..

dj

It's possible, that the other man in the video is Ingemar Jernberg. He got a 5,10m mark in Munich, '72 and a NM in Montreal, '76.

[golfdane]

You might be right, Kirk

I don't think it's 100% clear (journalist interpretations), but I see your points.

[Soar Like an Eagle]

http://boutique.ina.fr/video/sport/athletisme/CPF04006105/kjell-isaksson.fr.html

I'll let the vid do the talking. -6P

Isakasson was an incredible jumper. For those of you with time you should compare Isakasson to Isinbayeva. Notice how small the pit was. Here is information on a great video that has the history of many great jumps. Contact Ron Morris and/or Dan West with OnTrack and Field. information@ontrackandfield.com

V86-2 Pole Vault Men $29.00

Produced by track cinematographer Orra McMurry, these tapes are SILENT with limited titling to assist the viewer in following the action. Each tape consists of three sections, each of which features top athletes of the events in reverse chronological order... starting with footage from the most recent season and going back in time as long as the performance techniques are deemed viable for modern study.

Also, I recently got a video of Joe Dial's jumps in 8-12th grade, 1978-1982. This video is a very insperational with a lot of great footage.

[Kirk MPV]

I have a black and white laminated frame by frame vault of Kjell Isaksson, given to me by the head track coach at PCC, Skip Robinson, in 1973. It has 72 frames and measures 23'4" long and 5 & 1/2" tall. This hung in my room (extending across two walls) for many years, as a daily visual inspiration of how it's done. This help me to a PR of 5.05 in 1976 at CSUN (actually at the Mt Sac Relays-LOVED vaulting there on the main field)

The shot was copyrighted in 1971 by Phil Bath. On the back, it says 'TO ORDER ADDITIONAL STRIPS' and gives the following address :
VISUAL TRACK AND FIELD TECHNIQUES
292 So. La Cienega Blvd., Suite 202A
Beverly Hills, California 90211

It does not indicate when the shot was taken, but obvious it was a practice session somewhere, just for this footage. It is in a large stadium with no one there except a couple people. Vaulting into a 'Port-a-Pit' , and holding down 16-18" from the top of what ever pole his was using.
Sorry, NO free take off in this vault, indicated in frame#25. Right hand directly above his take off foot (not out,not under). Exactly what was taught in those days. Will gladly bring along to share at any Masters Meet I attend , if you let me know ahead of time. Maybe someone (Lane,Mike,Steve) at the Summit will provide a dignified and safe place to put it on display.

No, it is not for sale!

[KirkB]

... It does not indicate when the shot was taken, but obvious it was a practice session somewhere, just for this footage. It is in a large stadium with no one there except a couple people. Vaulting into a 'Port-a-Pit' , and holding down 16-18" from the top of what ever pole his was using.

Sorry, NO free take off in this vault, indicated in frame#25. ...

Could it be UCLA? He practiced there quite a bit with Dick Railsback and the rest of the UCLA grads.

Too bad his grip was down and no free takeoff. There's no way he held 16-18" down for his WRs.

Kirk