did i fix it?

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straightup
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did i fix it?

Unread postby straightup » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:52 am

not a bad meet. i was gripping 13-3 on a 14 165 carbon. 6 lefts from 76 feet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOC50dS4 ... pQ&index=1
i tried to get a better angle.
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Re: did i fix it?

Unread postby CoachEric » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:20 pm

Yes! This is improvement! You should have been able to feel the difference. Your impoved pole carry is leading to better pole rotation and better swing towards the top of the pole.

You're still not quite there yet though. The left hand needs to stay in the vicinity of the chest. You're letting it drop a bit too low.

To accomplish this, you need to have a more active pole drop, and pull that right hand up behind you! Keep the tip up for just a bit longer, and then let the pole tip accelerate faster towards the plant, so that it drops almost with gravity. This helps to take the pressure of the left hand, and forces you to avoid steering the pole tip into the box with the left. The other result is that because the pole tip is falling faster into the plant, the top of the pole is rotating up more quickly. This provides the space for you to extend upward with both arms at takeoff. Right now you left arm isn't achieving full extension.

So, in summary:
1. Accelerating pole drop
2. Keep the left hand up
3. Big extension with the left into takeoff

And as I've mentioned before. You ought to be running from 16 steps instead of 12. Try to work that back by the end of the season.

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Re: did i fix it?

Unread postby straightup » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:57 am

THANKS FOR THE HELP! i immediately felt the difference and was very very close to 14-6. as far as drilling it more, more 3 step towel drils? or pole runs? :yes: :yes: :) i have states this weekend ! also what do you mean by big extension with the left? thanks!! :yes:
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Re: did i fix it?

Unread postby CoachEric » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:12 pm

I mean that your left arm should be completely extended at takeoff. Your left arm is still a bit bent at the elbow. Remember that achieving high pole angle comes from the bottom arm, not the top.

You can drill the points I mentioned below with pole runs on the track and with slow motion walking plant drills. I like to have athletes go SUPER SLOW through the plant motion to have the develop awareness of exactly where the hands should be at every instant through the plant.

Good luck at States!

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Re: did i fix it?

Unread postby straightup » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:11 pm

im planning on moving back to 14 steps. and advice as far as checking steps and working into this longer run?
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Re: did i fix it?

Unread postby CoachEric » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:27 pm

It's all about the mid. Are you using DJ's chart? As a starting point, just add 12' to your 12 step run.

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Re: did i fix it?

Unread postby superpipe » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:12 pm

Surprised no one else commented on this yet:

Sorry CoachEric. I know you are just trying to help.

CoachEric wrote:I mean that your left arm should be completely extended at takeoff. Your left arm is still a bit bent at the elbow. Remember that achieving high pole angle comes from the bottom arm, not the top.


This couldn't be a more WRONG statement in the pole vault. This is the most extreme form of "blocking". There's only two possible ways to ever achieve a straight bottom arm at take-off that would be correct:

1. Your top and bottom hands are holding the pole at the same point
2. Your pole is infinitely long and you cap it. ( pole angle would be parallel to the ground at take-off )

Both are impossible.

Bottom arm should have the elbow bent out to the left at the plant (naturally based on the pole angle at plant), creating a "window" for the chest and head to move through when the shoulder muscles are "disengaged" from an active pressing of both hands straight up. Here's the famous pic of a maximized pre-strecth at take-off:

Image

When you correctly hit this position, you will feel like you are "pulling" the pole into the pit with you. Think of it as trying to jump "ahead" of the pole. When you block you feel like you are "pushing the pole into the pit with you. Bad for a million reasons, the basic one being you won't hit a maximized pre-stretch.
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Re: did i fix it?

Unread postby CoachEric » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:52 pm

You and I are referring to different moments in the vault. You've posted an image that takes place well after plant and takeoff.

In order to achieve the position that that Bubka hits in that image, he must first create the space for it. The correct position at the plant is to have both arms completely extended. That is entirely posible if the top is also in the correct position, with the bicep next to the face, on the front side of the ear. You can confirm this from numerous talks by Petrov. And notice that I said "create space" and "extend." I did not say press or block into the pole. If the pole carry and plant motion are corrected, the extended bottom arm will not force a blocking position because the takeoff will be more free.

After creating space, THEN the bottom elbow bends to allow the left hand to travel back over the head and to allow the head, shoulders and chest to move forward.

The more space the vaulter creates at takeoff, the more room the vaulter has to move forward into the big elastic position pictured. A vaulter who plants with the bottom elbow bent will not have as much space for the head to move forward under the bottom hand. It sometimes creates a tendancy to block, as straightup does. Often, a vaulter who has a blocking tendancy with a bent bottom arm will release the pressure when achieving full extension because he will have less leverage to resist forward. The shoulders will open up more post-takeoff simply because the position forces it.

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Re: did i fix it?

Unread postby superpipe » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:34 pm

CoachEric wrote: The correct position at the plant is to have both arms completely extended


Unless your grip was way too wide, which is "blocking" in itself, this is impossible. If you have a "correct" grip width and extended both arms straight at the plant, the pole tip would hit way above the bottom of the back of the box, if it made it into the box at all. Geometry of triangles proves it.

Here's Bubka at plant:

Image

It's very clear that if Bubka extended his bottom arm straight in the above shot, the bottom of the pole would rise as the pole rotates up around his top hand. Only way he could have had a straight bottom arm here is if he gripped alot wider in which case you'd end up "blocking"
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Re: did i fix it?

Unread postby CoachEric » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:17 pm

In his 2005 speech at Reno, Petrov makes in clear that Bubka's position here can be improved upon. Also, notice Bubka isn't off the ground yet, and he hasn't hit the box. If the takeoff is free, which Petrov acknowledges that Bubka does only occasionally, then there is enough space to reach full extension with the bottom arm before loading the pole. The top arm comes forward slightly, and the athlete is more perpendicular to the pole. Watch Bubka doing it at slow speeds, even at a low grip, and he achieves full extension. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgYQkQNw ... ata_player

It's exceedingly difficult at high speeds, and most athletes will not get there, but it's a usefull cue nonetheless. Bubka definitely cues it. Whether the athlete gets there it's not too terribly important. The important point is that the athlete does not stop short of maximum potential extension pre-takeoff, and that the athlete does not intentionally stop short or hesitate in the plant motion. Creating maximum space is vital for the following elements of the vault. The athlete maximizes the distance between the pole and his chest, allowing maximum room to stay behind the pole and swing. Also, the cue tends to make athletes plant faster with less hesitation, which quickens the feet and gets them closer to free takeoff.

To understand the geometry, don't assume a fixed top hand. As the left arm extends and pushes the pole, the right shoulder will stretch upward and forward. Try it just standing on the ground. Holding at a low grip, you will have to lean forward slightly to create the space.

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Re: did i fix it?

Unread postby superpipe » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:35 pm

CoachEric wrote:Try it just standing on the ground. Holding at a low grip, you will have to lean forward slightly to create the space.


You are absolutely right you would have to lean forward or push your top hand in front of you to allow a straight bottom arm at the plant with a "correct" grip width. Why on earth would anyone do that? That goes against every basic principle in pole vaulting. I have that same vid of Bubka's 14' straight pole pop-up. His bottom arm is absolutely bent at plant and the instant of take-off. His jacket and the vid quality make it hard to see.

A basic goal in vaulting is to create the largest pole angle ( referenced from the plant box ) possible at plant and take-off. Leaning forward or planting in front of yourself goes directly against this, not to mention a host of other issues.

I'll have to dig up that Petrov vid at Reno. I think I have it. Bubka could have extended his top arm more in the 1997 shots I posted, but that would have created a larger pole angle and therefore required his bottom elbow to be even more bent at that grip width.
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Re: did i fix it?

Unread postby CoachEric » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:50 pm

You are absolutely right you would have to lean forward or push your top hand in front of you to allow a straight bottom arm at the plant with a "correct" grip width. Why on earth would anyone do that?


Because pole angle and space behind the pole are both function of bottom arm extension, not top arm extension.

A basic goal in vaulting is to create the largest pole angle ( referenced from the plant box ) possible at plant and take-off. Leaning forward or planting in front of yourself goes directly against this, not to mention a host of other issues.


An athlete taking off perpendicular to the pole, having executed the prerequisite free takeoff, creates a higher pole angle than an athlete trying to extend solely with the top arm. This doesn't require that you lean forward at a 45 degree angle. You merely have to put your top arm bicep on your cheek.


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