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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mak0pZyqW3Y
Go To 40 seconds in. I couldnt edit it. sorry

6 lefts, 15 160 holding 14 3

I did get really badly injured. Just wondering if anyone would lend me some helpful advice.

perezn03 wrote: 6 lefts, 15 160 holding 14 3

I did get really badly injured. Just wondering if anyone would lend me some helpful advice.

Have you used that pole at that grip with that run before? What happened?

It looks fairly obvious that for your run and takeoff, you were either gripping too high, the pole was too stiff, or both.

The way to land safely on one of these stallouts is to STOP swinging as soon as you can, and hang on for dear life. Actually, you didn't even START swinging, so your pole or your grip were way off what you should have been attempting.

I don't know your normal run, grip, pole, or takeoff, so it's hard to say if this was an anomaly or not.

You were under on takeoff. You can see the pole loading before your takeoff foot leaves the ground. And hard to see on video, but you probably didn't JUMP up at all on your takeoff ... you probably expected the pole to just lift you up. You have to JUMP!

Unfortunately, after you tried to bail, the pole kicked out of the box. If you had let go with the TOP hand, and held on tight with the BOTTOM hand, you might have been able to coast safely into the pit.

Lessons learned:

1. Always use the appropriate grip and pole.
2. If you're bailing, always try to keep the pole in the box.
3. Always hang onto the pole (as long as it's in the box) and ride it out to a safe feet-first landing.

Comparing your grip to your PR, you are definitely over-gripping. With a PR of 13-6, you should be gripping about 13-2. That's only a 12" pushoff. With proper technique, that should be easy for you. You're learning the hard way that the way to improve your PR is NOT to simply grip higher! If you were gripping 13" lower (like you should have been), you would NOT be injured today! And you didn't get injured BADLY this time, but it could have been far worse!

I've been there and done that! I've lost almost 2 full seasons out of my PV career by doing stupid things like that. So I'm not trying to be a mean a** ... I'm trying to emphasize that SAFETY and PROPER TECHNIQUE should be your top 2 priorities ... for the sake of your health and your PV career.

Kirk

I have used that grip before. Not many, but my coach had decided that since we have no transition pole from 14 170 to 15 160, to just hold lower on the 15 160. I realize that the major problem was that i hadn't jumped enough at takeoff, though i probably shouldn't have been running since i had sprained my ankle a week before.

Thanks Kurt, you always provide a top notch analysis.

It doesn't matter what you had done in the past, it matters what you were doing that day. I am guessing you weren't REALLY blowing through the 14'170 when you moved up poles. Your coach also raised your grip too much. What brand is your 14'170? If it is a Spirit, and you were holding below the label, then you would have gone up 9" in grip. If it was a Pacer, your grip probably went up ~5" or so. Too much!!!

perezn03 wrote: I have used that grip before. Not many, but my coach had decided that since we have no transition pole from 14 170 to 15 160, to just hold lower on the 15 160. ... i probably shouldn't have been running since i had sprained my ankle a week before.

Use your common sense. If you're recovering from a sprained ankle, you're not going to be running as fast, or jumping as hard. Compound that problem with a pole that's too stiff for you and a grip that's too high for you, and you have an accident waiting to happen. Duh!

You're VERY, VERY lucky that you escaped with minor injuries. This should be a wakeup call for you.

The GENERAL advice of your coach was correct ... to hold lower on the 15 160. However, BOTH OF YOU didn't take this advice far enough. He should have advised you to transfer the SAME grip on your 14 170 to the 15 160.

Then, as you began landing near the BACK (not the FRONT) of the PLZ, he should have advised you to raise your grip ... GRADUALLY ... a couple inches at a time. And if you've been out with a sprained ankle ... and still aren't 100% healthy ... then he should have advised you to WAIT til you're healthier. OR, get back on the 14 170 with a LOW grip (say 13-0), and GRADUALLY work your way up ... until you could no longer reach the MIDDLE of the PLZ.

If he had given you this kind of advice ... and if you had followed it ... there's no way that you would have stalled out like you did on the vid.

In fact, I'm almost certain that you didn't even need to move up a pole THIS YEAR (let alone 2 poles, as per the Relative Resistance Chart).

If you held at about 13-2 ... as you should have ... you probably would not be overbending the 14 170.

perezn03 wrote: I realize that the major problem was that i hadn't jumped enough at takeoff ...

No ... this was NOT your major problem. Your major problem was that you were gripping the pole about a foot higher than you were capable of using ON THAT DAY! (Just as RG said.)

Your second-most major problem was that you've been over-gripping too much even when you were 100% healthy.

Technique first ... grip later!

Kirk

RG - it was a 14 170 ucs he had me holding on the label.
Kurt - I could try posting a video of one of my jumps on the 14 170. But the angle isnt too great. In that particular jump the standards were past 80,around 95 or 100. as it was a dual meet officiated by my coach. He believes that i need a 14 175 or 14 180 as my pb from 4 lefts on a 13 175 is 13 3. 5 lefts - 14 165, 14. but on 6 lefts it is 13 6. But he said instead of ordering a new pole, we should work with what we have. I do believe the grip was way too high as on every approach i did with the pole i was very skeptical.

perezn03 wrote: ... my coach. He believes that i need a 14 175 or 14 180 as my pb from 4 lefts on a 13 175 is 13 3. 5 lefts - 14 165, 14. but on 6 lefts it is 13 6. ...

I have 2 Ks in my name.

So if your PR on 5 lefts is 14-0, then THAT'S your PR ... not 13-6. No?

He may be right about the poles you need, but meanwhile, there's nothing wrong with choking up on the 15 160. Alternatively, you can choke up on the 14 170. Your GRIP is your MAJOR fault ... especially with a sprained ankle.

If you cleared 14-0 with a 14 165 from 5 lefts, then I don't see why you can't go even higher with a 14 170 FROM 5 LEFTS!

Don't go from 6 lefts until you have good technique at 5 lefts. Adding another left and raising your grip is NOT the answer. Keeping the grip down and improving your technique is the answer.

perezn03 wrote: ... I do believe the grip was way too high as on every approach i did with the pole i was very skeptical.

OK ... so you recognize your mistake ... or your coach's mistake. Discuss this with him ... and learn from it. And if he asks you to raise your grip when you're "skeptical", then just REFUSE. Use your common sense.

Once you clear 14-6 with no more than a 13-9 grip (straight from DJ's Mid Mark Chart), then ... and ONLY then ... should you raise your grip!

Technique first ... grip later!

Kirk

How do you avoid having the pole kick out of the box? I can handle getting rejected or stood up, but this happened once to me after I bailed on a jump and it almost cost me my season (landed on the slanted part of the pit).

IAmTheWalrus wrote:How do you avoid having the pole kick out of the box? I can handle getting rejected or stood up, but this happened once to me after I bailed on a jump and it almost cost me my season (landed on the slanted part of the pit).

Good question ... it's not easy! But what you have to do is detect EARLY that you're going to bail, then start bailing asap.

As the pole is recoiling ... as you're bailing ... try to dampen the recoil with your bottom arm (holding on tight with the top arm). Once you've done that ... or once you're past the point where that's even possible ... then your next best action to take is to let go with your TOP hand, but whatever you do, DON'T LET GO with your bottom hand. All the while, you should be striving to keep the butt in the box.

I've had plenty of practice doing this ... I don't mean to make it sound easy.

Really, the EASY solution is to not grip that high to begin with ... or to abort the moment you feel that you're "off".

And as I'm sure that you're aware ... if you land on your butt on the slanted pads, you still need to be careful that your feet don't windmill down and hit the box. So tuck them in. Or if you can, try to land on your feet ... even if that will put you off balance and you shoot sideways ... it will still absorb most of the shock.

Kirk

First... Everything Kirk said. And you MUST understand the relative relationship between poles.

Lets recap the math...

Assuming they are both spirit poles.

The 14' 1" UCS has a max grip at the band of 13'7". The 15'1" UCS has a max grip of 14' 7". Assuming you were holding at the band on the 14'1", If you gripped 14' 3" you moved your grip up 8" inches! I use a rule of thumb when moving up poles of matching the grip and maybe adding a finger or two (1-2 inches)... never 8"! That kind of adjustment changes take-off mark, mid mark, start mark, take-off angle...etc.

The average relative flex between poles of same weights is 20 pounds per foot... So moving down 4 inches from the band your 15'1" 160 was a relative 166.5 or thereabouts... ie it feels less stiff than your 14'1" 170. Though the higher sail piece on the 15' pole will also feel different. If you had transferred your grip directly across on these poles you would only be adding 10lbs of resistance... That should be doable if you really are blowing through, assuming the poles are similar mid range flexes (which is another long discussion).

Basically looks like you were over gripping and over bending on that jump. If you had gripped lower, you may have gotten jacked, but you might not have landed in the box.

Thanks very much, sorry about that KirK.

My PB is 14 i just lack remembering to change it. Sorry about that! But to answer your question about not using the 14 170 ucs from 5 is mainly because the pole is a stiff pole. I believe the flex is around high 14? 14.8 maybe? I'm not quite sure. The 165 is 16.1. I have using the 170 from 5L but i stall out. I feel maybe a lighter 170 will do the job?

And so that i can avoid another disaster in the future. Any reccomendations of what i should do at this point once i recover. I want to move back steps, because 5L isn't really competitive steps from what i see. Usually at meets i am the only one running from four or five lefts. Most others use 6 or 7 which i'd like to move back to. But my situation is that the 14 170 seems to move past vertical in my jump BEFORE i come off the top, so I considered swinging sooner but i feel thats bad practice as for getting on a larger pole you need a long swing. So i considered speeding the swing up, but i can only move so fast. Our pole category goes 13 175 14 155 14 160 14 170 15 160. I do though have many poles that are available when i train at the barn. But becoming relient on their poles is not good as they do not attend every meet.

perezn03 wrote:... I considered swinging sooner but i feel that's bad practice as for getting on a larger pole you need a long swing. ...

Who told you that?

ANY kind of swing on ANY size pole would be better than what we saw in your accident vid!

The most important thing is that it needs to be a COMPLETE swing! Seriously.

Kirk