5.05 bungee from a 5 step

[Polevaulter2012]

Hey, So my teammate and I went from a 5 step last practice. The first vaulter is me, I am on a 14'6,185,14.6 flex. Robby,the second jumper,is on a 15',180,16.1 flex. here is the video http://pvtime.ning.com/video/5-step-505-bungee

[Polevaulter2012]

Feel free to give feed back.

[Polevaulter2012]

Really? no one has any tips or anything?

[altius]

Video analysis of this kind is time consuming - and not always useful because there is usually so much you dont know about the athletes involved. Also I may be speaking a completely different language as far as you are concerned. So this is just a piece of black magic coaching to keep you happy -perhaps.

Firstly NEVER EVER use a tap -for reasons that have been discussed long and hard on this site in the past. The most obvious and important thing is that neither of you drive your shoulders powerfully towards the pad as you complete your swing -- Executing this correctly allows you put energy into the pole, hold it flexed for milliseconds longer and to cover the pole effectively so that you can then punch your hips up vertically - not towards the bar.

[Polevaulter2012]

Video analysis of this kind is time consuming - and not always useful because there is usually so much you dont know about the athletes involved.

What do you mean by "video analysis of this kind is time consuming"? Yeah knowing the athlete is a big help but form is form. Do you go off the petrov model?

Also I may be speaking a completely different language as far as you are concerned. So this is just a piece of black magic coaching to keep you happy -perhaps.

What do you mean by this? I have always thought it was good to listen to other coaches to a point. If the information is good you take it in, if bad you just let it go.

NEVER EVER use a tap

Why is this? I have not been a member of pole vault power for long so i have not read about this. One of the reasons Robby was getting a tap was because he had just broken a pole the jump before. I feel like a tap can be a good thing if your coach can perform this act right. Which dan can. Dan West is a well respected coach. He had a guy in the 92 olympics and use to coach at u of o. We are all students of the vault even if you are the best coach in the world, there is always something to learn.

drive your shoulders powerfully towards the pad as you complete your swing

By this do you think we are not dropping our shoulders hard enough in the pop? I have a problem with blocking and looking down at take off, Which keeps me from a long powerful swing to the top of the pole. I am the first vaulter on the video. It doesn't look like i really block that much because my head goes forward and down and this makes it look like my arm comes back. Any suggestions on how to fix this? I think this is my major problem in the vault.

I am always wanting to expand my knowledge of the vault. I watch video, read articles/ forms, and talk with my teammates that i live with about vault for hours and hours a day. we even watch all the neo vault dvds everyday at least once a day. I guess you can say we are addicted to the vault. but who isn't? haha

[tsorenson]

Hey Scott! Tom from Bend here. Nice to see you guys this weekend. I enjoyed checking out your website...keep up the good work. I am like you, addicted to the vault...

Both you and Robbie are technically sound vaulters and have great runs, testament to your excellent coaching. I find it interesting that looking down and blocking the bottom arm is your major problem with your vaulting, and would like to propose the following theory:

Wall plants possibly encourage vaulters to look down, block out the bottom arm, and be too rigid in the shoulders!

Until this weekend, I had not done this drill since 1996, mostly because nobody was brave enough to want to catch my 200lb. a**! After I did the drill (admittedly I did not relax the shoulders as I should have) I went over to the runway and did some vaulting. It seems that my shoulders were much less elastic than normal and that I blocked my swing a lot more than usual. Granted, I sometimes have way too little extension of my bottom arm at the takeoff, so perhaps I could use some more wall plants done correctly. Maybe the key to fixing your "looking down and blocking" problem is to focus on getting more elastic in the shoulders, allowing your bottom arm to flex slightly outwards at the elbow, allowing you to look up more, and drive your chest forward more, which might help your swing and top end. I don't pretend to know nearly as much as Dan but I am throwing this out there for the sake of discussion...I'd love to hear others' thoughts on the issue. Go back to your Neovault the Reckoning and watch Bubka's winning jump at the 1997 WC ("the highest jump of all time"). He does indeed plant high, driving both arms upward, but definitely allows a noticable bend in the left elbow OUTWARD, allowing both hands to come back above his head, and setting up his massive swing.

In addition to the blocking issue, you could add more energy with a more aggresive upward hip drive at the top as Altius stated, but then you may get caught turning too late...? Watching Bubka I don't get the impression that he is trying to turn early or wrap around the pole, but rather to explode his hips upward and turn naturally as he flies past his grip...more like pivoting on top of the pole. This is only possible if your swing is long and dynamic enough to get your legs and hips above the pole while it is still bent. You may be bringing your knees in a little more than you should after your excellent swing past the chord.

These issues are perplexing and lie at the heart of most disagreements regarding pole vaulting. I have the utmost respect for your coach and only mention these concepts to hear other coaches thoughts in an attempt to reconcile my own theories and give you some feedback. My general thought is that you are getting caught somewhere between 2 models of vaulting.

See you soon Scott...you guys keep up the good work

Tom

[Polevaulter2012]

Thanks tom, I really am glad you like the site.

Wall plants possibly encourage vaulters to look down, block out the bottom arm, and be too rigid in the shoulders!

I have really never thought about this. Now thinking about it, i do tend to look down in most of my drills. Drills are the key! I just have to think about it in my drills until it becomes natural for me. I really appreciate you pointing this out to me.

fixing your "looking down and blocking" problem is to focus on getting more elastic in the shoulders

I think another reason i may be looking down and blocking is because of shoulder flexabillity. I have been stretching them out everyday and i find that my arm is getting better, but the problem is that its programed in my head to look down and block, but again this is where drills, drills, and some more drills come into play.

NEVER EVER use a tap -for reasons that have been discussed long and hard on this site in the past.

Altius you say that it has been discussed long and hard on this site, so i thought i would do some research, this is what i found.

"I don't know much about how tapping started in the US but one small piece of the story that I know goes like this. In the early 1980's I coached at Montana State University and one of my vaultes moved on after graduation to coach at University of Montana and while he was coaching there he participated in a clinic here in Eugene. Andrzei Krzesinski was the vault coach for U of O at the time and also the vault coach for the Elite Nike vaulters that trained at U of O at the time which included, Kory Tarpening, Tim Bright, Scott Davis and a few others. Any way my ex-vaulter Tom learned to use taps at this clinic and once he got back from the clinic he shared this with me, showing me how Andrzei had taught him how to tap his vaulters. I had never heard of such a thing and was skeptical but it was hard to argue with the success of Andrzei and his multiple gold medal athletes. So I think in part at least the tap came from Europe. Food for thought." Vaultwest

[AllaboutPV1]

I think that a tap can be used correctly or it can be use incorrectly. If the vaulter is feeling weak or has been working really hard and needs a little help to get some work done i think a tap is being used correctly. If a vaulter is struggling to leave the ground and will only leave the ground if he gets a tap, then i could see the issue in the tap being used incorrectly. This should be between the coach and the athlete, to discuss if the tap is right for them. for me being the second vaulter in the video, i needed the tap. I have been lifting and working out pretty hard, i was dead on the runway and i had just broken a pole the jump before. I used the tap in this instance to get my confidence back up and to fix some technical problems. my coach can feel if i am leading with my chest or hips, and he could perhaps feel what i am doing incorrectly to not get my chest far enough forward. I only use a tap if i absolutely need it. If i can jump by myself i jump by myself. If your against the tap don't use it, if you feel that it could help u out,then try it , but don't make taps a habit!!!! I visualize that the coach isn't there when i am getting taped. this has helped me to not get accommodated to having a tap.

[IAmTheWalrus]

http://polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtop ... ap#p135751

http://polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtop ... &hilit=tap

Check out these threads for discussions of the tap

[altius]

"Really? no one has any tips or anything?" Do you remember writing this?? This is the only reason I responded. If I had known your coach was DW I would not have done so ( He is a good guy) BUT since you asked again I did put in just 2 cents worth. Note that i did not buy into the left arm debate - because that always opens up another can of worms but I agree with the comments others have made - that is certainly not what the Petrov model is about.

Incidentally it seems as tho you have not heard of either the BTB book or the Dvd - if you get a chance to borrow a copy you will see that I do have some understanding of that model. My good friend Bagget will even sell you one of each.

Re the difficulty of providing useful feedback on video jumps. You usually only see one jump - does that jump represent the norm for that jumper or is it atypical? In my view you have to watch a series of jumps -ideally in competition - to get an accurate understanding of what a vaulter of reasonable standard is really doing. Ideally you then need to discuss what you think you have seen with them to find out what they are trying to do - then it is useful to film you can watch together to see if you are on the same page. That brings us to language - what i am saying is that not only do coaches have different philosophies about the event -that is clearly the case here. But even if they have the same views they often describe them differently - using different words and different emphases. Hence 'language' is an issue and I have seen it confuse athletes. I suspect that many pub brawls begin with disagreements over semantics not substance.

Note - I went to Warsaw in January 1989 for two weeks to study AK - and observe his two Olympic Champions train. I learned a lot but never saw a tap - perhaps he changed his methods later.

Finally - With a good coach you should not be trawling the internet for TIPS -incidentally a word that should be banned from the vocabulary of coaching -along with TAPS come to think of it!

[vault3rb0y]

What is this magical way you speak of, in regards to learning how to "tap correctly"? Is there a way to give a tap that allows a coach to still see the entire vault, not give the vaulter a false sense of take off ability, and also not provide them with a crutch for leaving the ground? Is so, I'm all ears. Until then, low your grip or get on a smaller pole. The pole is just a reflection of the energy a vaulter is able to produce. If your end game is getting on bigger poles, then maybe you should keep giving taps! If it is to maximize energy input and efficiency on the pole, then do so on a safe pole, and blow through. My .02

[Polevaulter2012]

Well dont get us wrong here, we listen to every single word dan says, we have so much respect for him. Dan told us "it takes more then one coach to be great". So If you want to exccel then you must learn to take input from others. Yeah you have your bad coaches, and then you have your great coaches, but they both have different perspectives on what a vault should look like. If you can take in the best information each coach has to give then you may have a chance to be a great vaulter. I think knowledge is one of the key elements in doing so. Do you agree?

With a good coach you should not be trawling the internet for TIPS -incidentally a word that should be banned from the vocabulary of coaching -along with TAPS come to think of it!

So now do you understand why we are "trawling" the internet for tips? you say that taps are bad and you never should do them, but i think they are good if done properly. a perfect example of what i was saying about different perspectives. Its all about what works for you, There is really no set method.