Trouble getting complete inversion

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kenziemarie
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Trouble getting complete inversion

Unread postby kenziemarie » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:47 pm

I originally posted this in the intermediate technique section, but then reconsidered and thought maybe this would be a more advanced question? Idk. Anyway, I've had this problem for quite some time now, and I can't seem to be able to get past it. For the most part my runway and plant are consistent (I've been able to get on poles 20lbs over my weight), but I can't ever reach a full invert (see video below). I can get my legs up to the top of the pole, but I can't extend from there, and I end up "flagging out" horizontally. It feels as though my center of mass is not underneath the pole when it is loaded (aka my butt and hips), so it feels physically impossible for me to complete the invert. I've also noticed that the pole is almost straight by the time my legs reach the pole, and by that point I should already be extending. Is there anything I can do that will help this? Is it a strength issue? Or a timing issue? My coach isn't really a vault coach, so he can only help me so much.

https://youtu.be/tJrU9rDK7xY

I know in this video that my trail leg is horrible. But even keeping it long doesn't seem to change much as far as getting completely inverted. I feel like this is really inhibiting the heights I could be making. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!!

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Re: Trouble getting complete inversion

Unread postby grandevaulter » Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:58 pm

kenziemarie wrote: I've had this problem for quite some time now, For the most part my runway and plant are consistent

It's difficult to see whats going on with the approach and plant with the quality of video. There are several problems that are causing you to not properly cover the pole until it is straightened.

I break the vault down into key positions that must be hit in order for the following to work optimally. The key positions are from the book "From Beginner to Bubka and Isenbayeva too". These key positions are based on the Petrov/Bubka technical model. It's the simplest way to teach the vault to any level vaulter. Isenbayeva trained with Petrov in Formia Italy and exploits many aspects of the technical model.

Let's start with your take off. This is part of what is causing you to stall and not cover the pole correctly. It appears that your grip is wide. See your hand positions in relation to Issy's. It appears that your grip is wide and you pull with your arms and do not let them travel back to an elastic like position. You are flying your right leg and advancing your c.o.m forward and not up, trail leg - foot is moving forward and you are not hitting the Bryde split.
https://youtu.be/i1bxx-cw0xw
Sorry about the quality of this video but check the hand positions. Let me know what you think and we'll get to the sweep leg next and what it's effect on continuing to add energy into the pole.

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KirkB
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Re: Trouble getting complete inversion

Unread postby KirkB » Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:42 am

Kenz, I don't think this is an Advanced Technique topic. The flaws in your vaulting technique are all too common for Intermediate Girls (like you).

In addition to what GV said, I notice that your takeoff point is under. If you pause the vid there (hard to do, but try a few times and you'll pause it there - sooner or later), you'll see that the pole is already bending while your foot is still on the ground. That's bad - you need to takeoff further out, with a free takeoff. Isi has a nice free takeoff, and so does Feofanova.

Here's a good vid of her takeoff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TWAbc5TdpM.

You need to work up to a free takeoff GRADUALLY - not even elite vaulters learn this in a single week or a single month - it takes months and months of focused practice.

You have probably never heard of the "Bryde Split". I actually called it the "Jump to the Split Position" (back in the day), but I forgive GV for his slight typo - he was close. It was a critical part of my "Bryde Bend" technique.

Nowadays, a better reference is to call it "going elastic", or the "elastic stretch". This terminology was coined by Coach Dave Butler, and it's exactly what GV and I recommend. The idea is to whip the trail leg down and forwards IMMEDIATELY after your "elastic stretch". If you cannot STRETCH, then you cannot WHIP. And you cannot STRETCH if your takeoff is UNDER. Instead, the pole will jerk you off the ground (which is what you must feel when you're under). Do you?

Also remember that the bottom half of the vault is what makes the top half look easy. All of the work is done in the bottom half (which includes the takeoff; stretch; and whip of the trail leg).

You should also train yourself to swing with a long trail leg ON THE HIGHBAR OR RINGS. You cannot expect to have a good swing on the pole if you can't swing long on highbar or rings! :idea:

Good luck!

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

kenziemarie
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Re: Trouble getting complete inversion

Unread postby kenziemarie » Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:31 pm

GV and KirkB--Thank you guys so much! I'll really appreciate such a detailed critique!

As for my grip, I've heard so many different things about which grip to use. Some people say a whole arms length (which I feel is way too far apart), and some people say to use the length from your hand/wrist to your elbow. Currently I hold a little farther apart than the length from my hand to my elbow (about 4 inches further). What do you guys suggest for grip length?

GV-- to answer your question about the "bryde split" as you call it or the "elastic stretch", I do understand what both of you mean. I just don't exactly know how to achieve this in my vault, to know what it feels like when I'm doing it correctly. Do I need to jump more straight up and down? I feel like right now i'm jumping into it at a 45 degree angle. Are there any drills that I can do to help me feel the proper position?

Finally, as for my takeoff, this video was actually several months ago, and I have been working on getting closer to a free takeoff since then (at least being on rather than under). I'll try to get a video posted this week to get a comparison.

Let me know what you guys think! :)

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KirkB
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Re: Trouble getting complete inversion

Unread postby KirkB » Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:15 am

kenziemarie wrote: Currently I hold a little farther apart than the length from my hand to my elbow (about 4 inches further). What do you guys suggest for grip length?

I don't think I can give you an exact answer here. It really depends on what feels comfortable for you. I think you should strive for having the shortest distance between your hands possible, but not so short that it's too hard to hold the pole comfortably. So whatever you're gripping now, shorten the gap a bit until you just can't shorten it any more. Let experimentation be your guide.

kenziemarie wrote: ... to answer your question about the "bryde split" as you call it or the "elastic stretch", I do understand what both of you mean. I just don't exactly know how to achieve this in my vault, to know what it feels like when I'm doing it correctly.

It's too hard to learn on the pole. Get off the pole and into the gym to learn this.

For one thing, you should always do warmups by jogging along (without the pole), then jump upwards and forwards, timing the stretch upwards of your top hand with the drive downwards of your takeoff foot. Then, while at the peak of each warmup jump without the pole, drive your chest forwards and your trail leg back.

You can't do one without the other, since each action has an equal and opposite reaction. Thousands of reps of this warmup drill will engrain this "jump-to-an-elastic-stretch" in your mind, so that you won't even have to think about it when you jump with the pole.

Another drill you should do are running jumps onto a highbar or rings. You might need to jump from a raised platform so that you're not jumping UP too much - you need to jump THROUGH the highbar, letting you chest through.

But if you don't drive the chest forwards (leaving the arms back), then you've missed the point of the excercise. Don't expect it to immediately work. You also need lots of flexibility in your shoulders to "go elastic", so do "skin-the-cats" every day you're in the gym, and when you're lying prone, practice stretching your arms on the ground behind you (inching them back so that you gradually become more flexible).

kenziemarie wrote: Do I need to jump more straight up and down?

I feel like right now i'm jumping into it at a 45 degree angle. Are there any drills that I can do to help me feel the proper position?

45 degrees is WAY too much! Apparently the optimal angle is 19 degrees, but you could vault your entire life (I did) and not even know what your actual angle was. You need to takeoff more like a long jumper than a high jumper. If you're going 45 degrees, then that's closer to a high jump than a long jump. The key is to strike your takeoff foot vigorously down (as you drive your lead knee up), just like a long jumper.

BTW, as an 11-2 female, you probably shouldn't have posted your questions in the Advanced Forum. But it's OK, this advice (for the most part) is equally good for beginners, intermediates, and elite vaulters.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!


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