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Re: Swing Efficiency Comparison: Bubka, Tradenkov, Lavillenie

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:11 pm
by PVDaddy
Just for Kirk once again:
I believe The Slow-Mo footage of Lavellenies WR vault confirmed what I had speculated earlier, that in his case it was more sever and earlier and had even more of a pronounced Physical effect on Lavellenies swing. Look below and see the dramatic effect the bending and rotating pole has on Lavellenies swing![b] Can you imagine how far off of vertical his swing path would be if he did not compensate [b]by steering his hips to the right?


This dramatic effect on Lavellenies swing begins at frame 3:19. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtZH3Q19w4I

Just because you struggle with any new concepts or ideas you are not aware or have the capacity to understand I would appreciate it if you would NOT misquote me or take my meaning way out of context. I highly suggest you look at frame 3:19 were you can observe for yourself the effect this has on his swing, His body is turned to the left hard from the effect I have already described with his swing foot moved right. :o

Re: Swing Efficiency Comparison: Bubka, Tradenkov, Lavillenie

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:32 pm
by grandevaulter
PVDaddy wrote:I said the vaulter should make a correction on their SWING PATH!


:dazed: :dazed:

Re: Swing Efficiency Comparison: Bubka, Tradenkov, Lavillenie

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:47 pm
by KirkB
PVDaddy wrote: Can you imagine how far off of vertical his swing path would be if he did not compensate by steering his hips to the right?

It is not possible to 'steer the hips to the right' without it having an equal and opposite reaction. Physics 101. He is either steering his hips by applying some sort of pressure with his hands to the pole, or he is contorting his body in mid-air (with no pressure through the hands). Which is it? :confused: Either way, he is following the same Laws of Physics that every other vaulter on this planet follows.

Methinks you are continuing to speculate - by attempting to reverse-engineer Lavillenie's vids - without even the foggiest notion of how a vault swing actually WORKS, and then seeing things that just aren't there!

And to top it off, you're inventing new language that just muddies the waters, instead of clearing things up. :dazed:

PVDaddy wrote: ... counter side swing ... counter thrust bend ...

Gimme a break. You're living in a dream world.

No more throwing pearls to swine for me! You can wallow in your own pig-slop all you want - I'm putting your posts back on MUTE! :dazed:

Kirk

Re: Swing Efficiency Comparison: Bubka, Tradenkov, Lavillenie

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:00 pm
by KirkB
PVDaddyOnIgnoreList.png
PVDaddyOnIgnoreList.png (22.07 KiB) Viewed 16147 times

Done. :yes:

Kirk

Re: Swing Efficiency Comparison: Bubka, Tradenkov, Lavillenie

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:09 pm
by Decamouse
So if you see something no one else sees -- not even the professionals - those who coach national and international teams and vaulters - are you a visionary -- someone reaching - a troll -- or yet to be determined - maybe it is time to tone it down -- take your visions and translate it to real world results - even if it is a local scale - improvement - school records - again -- this is a places for discussions - this is the advanced technique -- scifi channel -- probably not

Re: Swing Efficiency Comparison: Bubka, Tradenkov, Lavillenie

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:35 pm
by altius
Kirk - I understand this is the Advanced section but surely the aim of Pole Vault Power is always to clarify and educate, not to complicate and obfuscate.

I have spent time with some of the great vault coaches of the world and apart from their passion the one thing they all have in common is their ability to communicate complex ideas clearly and simply so that athletes have a clear understanding of what they need to do. The present discussion is contributing nothing to our knowledge of the pole vault or making it easier for inexperienced coaches to understand how to go about helping youngsters to improve. Surely even an 'advanced section' should contribute to both of these objectives?

Re: Swing Efficiency Comparison: Bubka, Tradenkov, Lavillenie

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:35 pm
by PVDaddy
Kirk, rather then resorting to continual insult would you please tell us all what are the forces (were are they coming from?) that severely turn Lavellenies hips to the left and his take off foot to the right at frame 3:19?


Guess what folks he can't/wont answer that? I have. :)

Re: Swing Efficiency Comparison: Bubka, Tradenkov, Lavillenie

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:17 pm
by Decamouse
PVDaddy -- lets be clear and honest - that is your opinion of what you see and how you view and choose to explain it -- does not make it a fact --
I am answering in that I have watched and watched and do not see what you see -- and I would not proclaim I see what others can not see or explain based on that - has any established coach/bio-mechanist/elite anything said your are spot one?

Counter side swing -- counter thrust bend -- sorry - again never heard anyone else discuss it or even mention it -- can plant location (which side of box) impact pole bend - yes especially on big bends - can takeoff foot location on runway relative to CL of runway and as related to where in the box the pole tip ends up - yes

Does the direction the pole bend have anything to do with a vaulter keeping his shoulders square and the rule requirements for slops of back and side of box - yes

Talking about those I can understand -- were you have the answer, as you stated - if no one else understands where that is - guess I will not have the answer either

Re: Swing Efficiency Comparison: Bubka, Tradenkov, Lavillenie

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:26 pm
by KirkB
altius wrote:Kirk - I understand this is the Advanced section but surely the aim of Pole Vault Power is always to clarify and educate, not to complicate and obfuscate.

... The present discussion is contributing nothing to our knowledge of the pole vault ...

Altius, I'm not sure why you're directing your comments towards me.

I of course agree that this mid-air steering nonsense is misleading - and going nowhere - yet PVDaddy persists in wallowing in his own pig-slop to try to convince the PV community that he's NOT off his rocker. :dazed:

I am done with this discussion, as I've already made my points clear.

Did you mean to address PVDaddy with your remarks?

Kirk

Re: Swing Efficiency Comparison: Bubka, Tradenkov, Lavillenie

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:31 pm
by KirkB
Decamouse wrote: -- can plant location (which side of box) impact pole bend - yes especially on big bends - can takeoff foot location on runway relative to CL of runway and as related to where in the box the pole tip ends up - yes
:yes:
Others: Please note that these are both PRE-TAKEOFF actions.

Decamouse wrote: ... slops of back and side of box ...
Freudian slip? LOL! :)

Kirk

Re: Swing Efficiency Comparison: Bubka, Tradenkov, Lavillenie

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:43 pm
by Decamouse
thinks so O:-) or :devil:

Re: Swing Efficiency Comparison: Bubka, Tradenkov, Lavillenie

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:45 pm
by PVDaddy
Kirk, Just as you have questioned me and mocked me about so many new concepts and Ideas I have introduced here to PVP (I read every day about PV and share my findings and this should be the purpose of this advanced section, if for anything good debate and improved understanding) such as my emphasis on the benefit of a gymnastic type Tap at the bottom of the swing or my emphasis of the extension (Which I suggested was a form of a tap at the top. So what, both are coming out arched or hollow positions which are coiled in shape and add great energy to the swing and Pole?) or my suggestion that inverting beyond vertical has benefits in that it produces a more vertical fly-away and places the vaulters COG to more fully receive the energy of the uncoiling pole or that re-extending the bottom hand both lowers the vaulters COG and adds energy to the swing. All these things you said were hogwash at first, but, later claimed to except and claim as your understanding? Were are all these pearls you claim to provide and who in fact is the swine? Here to you will find yourself sadly mistaken and acting the fool not me! :o

Look Physics 101 Genius, from the moment the right handed vaulter leaves the runway the pole immediately begins to lean to, bend to and then rotate to the left!

Guess what? All of this and the centripetal motion of the poles rotation has an effect on the vaulters swing path in that it causes it to leave the perpendicular line of the runway and be directed left! :idea:

This is all very evident from Lavellenie's beginning square plant tp the twisting action of Lavellenies spine and the movement of his trail leg to the right during his swing starting in frame 3:19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtZH3Q19w4I

What does the wise vaulter do. The wise vaulter directs his legs to the right to compensate for this effect and make his swing path again perpendicular to the runway.
You probably did this in your swing as you swung toward your top hand without even realizing it!

There, have yet once again another pearl from the pole vaulting nobody!