Mid Mark Chart

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Re: Mid Mark Chart

Unread postby KYLE ELLIS » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:26 am

rainbowgirl28 wrote:Just another shout out to the idea of using mid marks...

I recently spoke with a coach who saw Isinbayeva jump a number of times this summer. She usually hit within a few inches of a certain mid.

At the World Championships, she was hitting over a foot out from that mid. Petrov doesn't use mids and did not adjust for this. Result = NH


If he saw her practicing then I would think it would change in a meet due to adrenaline and moving up to bigger poles. I could see a mid moving a foot from practice to competition.
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Re: Mid Mark Chart

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:41 am

KYLE ELLIS wrote:
rainbowgirl28 wrote:Just another shout out to the idea of using mid marks...

I recently spoke with a coach who saw Isinbayeva jump a number of times this summer. She usually hit within a few inches of a certain mid.

At the World Championships, she was hitting over a foot out from that mid. Petrov doesn't use mids and did not adjust for this. Result = NH


If he saw her practicing then I would think it would change in a meet due to adrenaline and moving up to bigger poles. I could see a mid moving a foot from practice to competition.


Meets only, not practice.

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Re: Mid Mark Chart

Unread postby KYLE ELLIS » Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:54 pm

Yeah, then definately not good.
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Re: Mid Mark Chart

Unread postby dj » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:14 am

Good morning,

Thanks Becca for the info…

This really gives us some information to “explain” how and why a “six step check mark” can be so critical, even for the best of the best.

I would say she was probably hitting around 15.30 (50feet) on her good jumps and upwards of 15.60 (51’2”) on the NH.

A good indicator of how a step that is “out” by only 5cm or 2” per step, over the last 6 strides, can change the speed of the run and dramatically change the whole technique including posture, the plant, the takeoff, the swing etc…..

I am sure many, most observers had comments about her technique, like “she didn’t plant well, her plant was late and wasn’t up, she didn’t get a free takeoff, she leaned back, her swing was slow and she didn’t really get vertical and come off the pole.”

All of these were a result of not being “on’ at the mid (6 step mark) and not having the speed and force to do those things correctly. A coach can tell her to get her plant up, can tell her to “jump” at the takeoff, to swing faster or go vertical but she can’t.. simply because the “energy” based on grip is not there to do these things correctly…

dj

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Re: Mid Mark Chart

Unread postby jschools » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:02 pm

I am sorry if this has already been asked and answered. I didn't have time to read all 27 pages on this post. If I wanted to use these marks for a 3 lefts drill, should I use the marks for the grip height. For example, if my athlete has a grip height of 9-10, I should start him out at 33 feet? If I understand what I have read so far, if my vaulter is going 14 feet and I try to use the "mid" mark for a short approach drill, it would cause the vaulter to overstride and mess up the approach. Is my thinking correct or am I not connecting the dots?

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Re: Mid Mark Chart

Unread postby VaultPurple » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:25 pm

jschools wrote:I am sorry if this has already been asked and answered. I didn't have time to read all 27 pages on this post. If I wanted to use these marks for a 3 lefts drill, should I use the marks for the grip height. For example, if my athlete has a grip height of 9-10, I should start him out at 33 feet? If I understand what I have read so far, if my vaulter is going 14 feet and I try to use the "mid" mark for a short approach drill, it would cause the vaulter to overstride and mess up the approach. Is my thinking correct or am I not connecting the dots?


Go by the current grip. Im pretty sure you pick your 3 left mark by the grip, the bar height and take off are just there to give you an idea of where you should be around. So if you are gripping 12' you would use a 40' 3 left mark. But for a vaulter that only grips between 9 and 10 foot from 3 lefts I'm not too sure how great the mid mark would work because the run is different over the last 3 steps of a long run compared to the first 3 lefts of a short run. (But it is somewhat close, I grip 12' from 3 at about 40' which is what the chart says, but that could just be me)

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Re: Mid Mark Chart

Unread postby jschools » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:47 pm

I was just using that as an example. Thanks for the input.

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Re: Mid Mark Chart

Unread postby dj » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:33 pm

hye

i think the correct answer is... start at 33 feet for a grip of 9'10"... there may be minor adjustments.. but look at Isi's sand vault from 3 lefts>>> looks like she is using a "start" mark of 3 lefts that would be very close to my chart based on grip...

if you are a 14 foot vaulter and gripping around 13-5 you should have a (last) 6 step mark of approx.. 45 from a longer run..

if a vaulter CAN grip 13-5 from a "short" 3 left/6 step run, their start should be approximately 45..

i do believe Bubka was around 14-14'6 (4.25/4.40) on grip on his best 6 step jogadan... which would have put his start at 45/46 ish (13.75/14.06)

VP was correct it is based on grip.. long or short run doesn't matter.. if you can move a 12 grip to vertical from 3 lefts that mark should be approx.. 41 feet..

dj

ps.. do take notice of how Isi (sand vault clip on her thread) "pushes" out at the start of her sand vault.. she was using a start mark (little black tape) and if we knew what the TJ board is/was we could get a mark from start to the "imagined" back of the box..(sand) i think she is gripping around 12 feet/3.65m which would be 41 feet or 12.50m.. if the TJ board is 11 meters (normal international) and she takes off )a meter from the edge of the sand) at 10 meters from her start + 2.80 for a 12 foot grip that would make the distance 12.80 meters or 42 feet. food for thought!!!!

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Re: Mid Mark Chart

Unread postby jschools » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:31 pm

Thanks for the information. That really helps out and makes a lot of sense. Where is her video of the sand vault? On the video threads?

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Re: Mid Mark Chart

Unread postby dj » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:46 pm

hey

http://www.usapolevaulting.org/articles

look in beginners under sand vault.... page one toward the bottom

tried to transfer from the other site.. search sand vault...

dj

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Re: Mid Mark Chart

Unread postby master » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:52 am

jschools wrote:Thanks for the information. That really helps out and makes a lot of sense. Where is her video of the sand vault? On the video threads?

This link will download the video to your computer.
http://www.usapolevaulting.org/articles ... ration.mpg
It plays well in QuickTime player.

- master

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Re: Mid Mark Chart

Unread postby jschools » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:37 pm

Ok. Today at the workout, I had my polevaulter grip the pole at 12 ft. I asked him if he thought he get that grip into the pit and he said he could and did. So, according to the chart, I set the "Mid" mark at 40 ft and the take off at 9 ft. I did not tell him what I was doing. He ran a 10 step approach. After making a couple of small adjustments to the beginning of the his run, he was dead on at the "Mid" mark, but about 9 inches under at the take off. Here is my question...Do I work with him on shortening his last step at take off or do I move his grip height to match his speed on the runway?

I apologize if this was already discussed in the previous 27 pages. I still haven't had a chance to read all of the yet.

Thanks for your input.


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