1973 Description of the Bryde Bend

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KirkB
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1973 Description of the Bryde Bend

Unread postby KirkB » Mon May 20, 2013 5:01 pm

Most of my 1971-1972 technique has been described in the Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split) thread (http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=15483), as I recalled it in June 2008.

It is usually not easy for anyone to recall details of things from over 40 years ago, but I have a very vivid memory of almost exactly how I vaulted and the cues I used back then.

In Nov 2009, my PV buddy Jerry Hock was kind enough to send me a copy of the 8th Edition (1973) of Dr. R. V. Ganslen's "Mechanics of the Pole Vault", in which I provided answers to Dr. Ganslen's questions re my novel technique. The most unique part of my technique was my vigorous "jump to the split", but I also had a high, "weightless" pole carry, very high pole plant, an excellent free takeoff, and a very strong, smooth, continuous swing and extension on a big-bending pole (a much bigger bend than most other elite vaulters in my day - in hindsight perhaps too big of a bend). The similarities between my technique and the Petrov Model (developed over a decade later) are uncanny!

Dr. Ganslen also asked other world-class vaulters of 1972 - such as Jan Johnson, Dave Roberts, Kjell Isaksson, Steve Smith, Wolfgang Nordwig, Hans Lagerqvist, Jeff Taylor, Mike Cotton, Larry Jessee, Francois Tracanelli, and Reinhard Kuretzky these same questions. (If you're interested, I have all their replies, and I've already quoted Isaksson's replies here: http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=17391&start=12.)

In this 1973 edition, I was delighted to read the self-analysis of my vault, and compare it to my current recollection of my technique. Amazingly, it's nearly identical to how I describe my technique on PVP today. I had studied my 1971 technique all thru 1972 with Coach Shannon, so I'm sure that's why it's still so vivid in my mind. We ran that vid thru our Super-8 projector so many times that it wore out - which is why I don't have the vid today, or I'd share it.

Here's Dr. Ganslen's questions and my answers ...

Name: Kirk Bryde
Pole Flex: 6.25-7.125
Weight: 175
Max Grip: 15-8
Avg Grip: 15-4
Hand Spread: 22"
Birthdate: 7-9-1949
Height: 72"
Best 100m Time: 11.4 (10.4 for 100 yards)
Best Other Event: TJ 43-7 (in HS)
Year Started Vaulting: 15 (this was when I started using a fiberglass pole - I started PV at age 12 with aluminum, bamboo, and steel)
Country: Canada

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS FROM WORLD RANKING VAULTERS

1. WHAT TYPE OF POLE PLANT ARE YOU USING AT THE PRESENT TIME? WHAT SPECIAL TECHNIQUE DO YOU EMPLOY IN THE PLANT? DO YOU USE AN SPECIAL TRAINING EXERCISES?

BRYDE: Through the shoulder pole plant, I keep the pole as close to my body as possible while planting, keeping the shoulders square at all times except fo the split second when the top hand passes from a "fingers down" position under the shoulder, to ta "fingers up" position above the shoulder. The top hand passes just in front of the shoulder (through where the shoulder would have been if it stayed square), then just in front of the ear. (A tight close to the body) execution of a through-the-shoulder is possible only with a very flexible shoulder. I improve my shoulder flexibility by doing "skin cat" drills on the high bar and rings and hanging dislocates on the rings.

2. AFTER THE PLANT, DO YOU CONSCIOUSLY PRESS FORWARD ON THE POLE WITH THE LOWER HAND AT TAKE-OFF AND ARE YOU AWARE OF THE PRESSURE?

BRYDE: No! The bottom hand is used for balance and control only. Any pressure applied would interfere with circular momentum (swinging to the rock-back position).

3. IN THE TAKE-OFF ACTION FROM THE GROUND, HOW DO YOU CONTROL YOUR DRIVING ACTION?

BRYDE: I think of my take-off action as a "jump to a split position" (i.e.) driving the lead knee forward and upward quickly at the same time the chest is drive forward towards the pole. There is a definite pause in this split position after take-off. The higher the grip and the more the poe bends then the longer you should pause in the "split".

2013 Note: I realized only 5 years ago that I should NOT have paused in the "split". My 1971 Pac-8 Meet vaults, and my short run practice vaults did NOT have this flaw. I explain this here, starting with my Oct 21 post on page 11: http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/search.php?t=15483

4. WHAT ARE YOUR CUES (VISUAL OR OTHERWISE) FOR GETTING INTO THE WELL-ROCKED POSITION ON THE POLE BEFORE PULLING?

BRYDE: I don't come off the pole (i.e.) stop the rock-back and start the leg extension until I kinesiologically feel a loss of horizontal momentum. If my leg swing doesn't give me the circular momentum to rock back completely before the pole straightens I usually switch to a lighter pole that will give me the rock back. Without losing horizontal momentum, my pull is more of a leg extension like the half of a "clean and jerk" in weight lifting. This is the strongest part of my vault. By using my legs and my back instead of my arms I get a very efficient extension. It makes sense to use your arms as a last resort because you're much weaker than in your legs and back.

5. IN DELAYING THE PULL AND TURN, HOW DO YOU CONTROL AND MAINTAIN YOUR POSITION ON YOUR BACK?

BRYDE: As long as I have the confidence that I will land well into the pit, I am able to delay the turn until the extension is almost complete. Also, since I don't pull with my top arm until the extension is almost complete, I don't rotate until then -- the two go together.

6. (AUTHOR) I WISH TO INTRODUCE A NEW CONCEPT IN THE VAULT WHICH I WILL CALL PENETRATION. BY PENETRATION, I MEAN THE ABILITY TO GET UP HIGH AND STILL HAVE SUFFICIENT MOMENTUM TO CLEAR THE BAR. THIS CONCEPT IS USED BECAUSE MANY VAULTERS GET WELL UP INTO THE AIR AND "STALL OUT" OR ARE UNSUCCESSFUL IN REACHING THE CROSS BAR. WHAT ARE 3 OR 4 MAJOR FACTORS IN YOUR OPINION WHICH MAKE IT DIFFICULT OR IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE VAULTER TO ACHIEVE SUCCESSFUL PENETRATION?

BRYDE: (1) Grip too high. (2) Pole too stiff. (3) Leaning back at take-off. (4) Not driving chest into the pole at take-off. In order to penetrate horizontally towards the bar just after take-off while in the split position. If you have not penetrated before you rock back, all is lost for the top of the vault and you are probably making one of the above mistakes.

7. DO YOU WORK FOR A PARTICULAR CLEARANCE STYLE OVER THE CROSS BAR?

BRYDE: I only worry about the position of my arms. I turn my thumbs in to raise my elbows above the bar.

8. IN YOUR PERSONAL JUDGEMENT, WHAT ARE 3 MAJOR FAULTS IN TECHNIQUE OR TRAINING THAT HOLD BACK THE PROGRESS OF MANY VAULTERS?
BRYDE: (1) Most vaulters rely too much on vaulting practice for learning technique. it is more expedient to concentrate on one part of the vault at a time doing running, gymnastics and weight lifting technique drills. (2) Many vaulters (myself included) have a make-or-break attitude, going for the long run, the high grip and the heavy pole for the big jump rather than learning proper technique slowly but surely (i.e.) one step of progress at a time, but never digressing. (3) The stomach muscle group in a vaulter's continuing and strengthening program. The difference between a 14-0 and 16-0 vaulter is often merely gut strength.

9. IN A SHORT PARAGRAPH, DESCRIBE YOUR BASIC PHYSICAL TRAINING PROGRAM.

BRYDE: Technique running: Includes running with a pole and pole plant drills, long jumping and split leg jumps. Gymnastics: Includes rings with two-legged swings, split-leg swings and shoot-to-handstand. High bar: Includes rocking back drills, leg extension drills, kip-ups, free hip circle to handstand, back giant swings take-off drills with 3-step run. Weight lifting: Includes cleans, behind the neck military presses, inclined board drills, sit-ups, and leg extensions.

My training program is a balanced program of running, vaulting and weight lifting Generally I do two of the above programs each day, 6 days a week up to 3-4 hours per day.

10. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE FUTURE OF MODERN POLE VAULTING?

BRYDE: Physically and physiologically, a 20-foot vault is possible today by several different athletes. But psychologically, man is a primitive animal when it comes to vaulting. For this reason, I think that future "break-throughs" in vaulting will come from scientific advancement not in physics and physiology, but in psychology. With the introduction of professional track there is now monetary incentives for psychological scientists to study the psychology of vaulting and apply it to the athletes, just as the physical and physiological scientists [did in the past].

As Bob Richards one said to Junior: "The sky's the limit!"

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

david bussabarger
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Re: 1973 Description of the Bryde Bend

Unread postby david bussabarger » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:07 pm

Kirk,
I remember competing against you in the 1971 NCAA championships at UW. I was impressed by your technique and made the comment to you that I thought your technique was similar to Herve D'Encausse, the first great french fiberglass vaulter. As I remember you replied that you based your technique on Jon Vaughn, a great technician with a PR of 17-5 in 68 when the WR was 17-8. So, as I'm sure you know, the precedence for Buka's technique goes back even before you.
I have a copy of the Mechanics of the PV your comments are in. After rereading them on line I have to say that you had an excellent understanding of the basics of fiberglass technique at such an early date. However,like the advocates of the Petov/Bubka "model", you state that there should be no tucking during the rock-back. Other than Bubka's great success there is no empirical evidence that sweeping the trail leg in a sraight position through to the completion of the rock-back is superior to tucking. Keep in mind that 12 of the 18 vaulters who have cleared 6m or better utilize some variation of of a tucking rock-back. So it's success in the real world is very well proven. In a related point, you also stated on pvp that you didn't think that Lavillinie really tucked ( I'm paraphrasing here ). All I can say is that if Lavillenie doesn't tuck there is no such thing as tucking.

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KirkB
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Re: 1973 Description of the Bryde Bend

Unread postby KirkB » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:20 am

david bussabarger wrote: I remember competing against you in the 1971 NCAA championships at UW.

I didn't remember that, so I dug out my old program from that meet, and sure enough, there you are: "Dave Bussabarger, Colorado jr. 16-9"!

david bussabarger wrote:I was impressed by your technique and made the comment to you that I thought your technique was similar to Herve D'Encausse, the first great french fiberglass vaulter. As I remember you replied that you based your technique on Jon Vaughn, a great technician with a PR of 17-5 in 68 when the WR was 17-8. So, as I'm sure you know, the precedence for Buka's technique goes back even before you.

I didn't remember that either, but I did hear of the comparison of my technique to Herve D'Encausse's (the father - not the son), and yes, I'm sure I did tell you that my technique was based on Jon Vaughn's. Coach Ken Shannon and I studied his technique on Super 8 vid quite a bit, and I think my technique was quite close to his in 1970 (although my PR that year was only 15-6). However, my technique improved dramatically in 1971 with my high pole carry and "weightless" pole drop (which we copied from Isaksson), and my "jump to the split position" - which I innovated on my own.

david bussabarger wrote: ... I have to say that you had an excellent understanding of the basics of fiberglass technique at such an early date. However, like the advocates of the Petov/Bubka "model", you state that there should be no tucking during the rock-back. Other than Bubka's great success there is no empirical evidence that sweeping the trail leg in a straight position through to the completion of the rock-back is superior to tucking. Keep in mind that 12 of the 18 vaulters who have cleared 6m or better utilize some variation of of a tucking rock-back. So its success in the real world is very well proven.

You make a good point here, and Lavellenie's recent success does (in my mind) contradict what I call the "conventional wisdom" that the Petrov Model is the "best" model. This has not gone unnoticed by me recently.

However, my long, powerful sweep of my trail leg after my "jump to the split position" (what is now called an exaggerated "C" or "stretch" position) was my bread-and-butter, and I still swear by it. My money is still on the long, sweeping, continuous motion of the trail leg (like D'Encausse, Vaughn, myself, Bubka, Duplantis, and many others), but there is definitely more than one way to clear 6.00m.

david bussabarger wrote: In a related point, you also stated on pvp that you didn't think that Lavillinie really tucked ( I'm paraphrasing here ). All I can say is that if Lavillenie doesn't tuck there is no such thing as tucking.

Yes, that's what my impression of his technique was at the Pre in Eugene last week. But in this thread (http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=30135&p=178360&hilit=renaud#p178360), ADTF Academy commented on a vid of Renaud where he didn't tuck at all - it was a continuous sweeping motion of his trail leg right thru to the extension! I also recall vids of other meets last year where he had the definite tuck that you refer to. So I'll have to take another look at his vaults, to see if I missed something. Maybe his technique is evolving? :confused: I dunno.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

david bussabarger
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Re: 1973 Description of the Bryde Bend

Unread postby david bussabarger » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:44 am

Kirk,
I have seen about a dozen videos of Lavllenie vaulting on the internet (there used to be more videos posted of him in the past then there are now ) and have several videos of him that I taped from TV, including his 19-7 olympic vault.
In every vault I have seen of him, his technique is characterized by a deep inward take off arch with a sight hang at the end, followed by a very brief passive swing, after which he begins a long tight tucking action.
There is nothing wrong with favoring a particular style of vaulting and believing it is the best way to vault as long as it is recognized that many other styles can and do produce outstanding results. Believing that there is only one best way to vault and any deviations from this "style" ( I use the term style here as opposed to model intentionally ) represent faulty or inferior execution, is the biggest problem in coaching today ( think Petrov /Bubka style advocates ).

david bussabarger
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Re: 1973 Description of the Bryde Bend

Unread postby david bussabarger » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:01 am

I forgot to mention that I wrote and illustrated the Elusive Bar. The text was based on both Bruce and my ideas on vaulting technique at that time ( I did not take credit for the writting to preserve my amateur status ). We were the first to introduce the concept of the free take off in this book, although we did not use this term to describe it. I believe we were also the first to emphasize the critical importance of the swing in fiberglass vaulting.
Bruce and I are currently working on a new edition of the book.

david bussabarger
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Re: 1973 Description of the Bryde Bend

Unread postby david bussabarger » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:22 am

Kirk,
I don't know if you have read it , but I posted a response to your comments on Pennel in your "20 years left out" topic on the bottom of page six. I also included my e-mail adress.

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Re: 1973 Description of the Bryde Bend

Unread postby botakatobi » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:44 pm

david bussabarger wrote:Kirk,
I don't know if you have read it , but I posted a response to your comments on Pennel in your "20 years left out" topic on the bottom of page six. I also included my e-mail adress.


Jim Graham and John Uelses both discuss their effort to use the free take off in early editions of Ganslen's book.

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KirkB
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Re: 1973 Description of the Bryde Bend

Unread postby KirkB » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:32 pm

david bussabarger wrote:Kirk,
I don't know if you have read it , but I posted a response to your comments on Pennel in your "20 years left out" topic on the bottom of page six. I also included my e-mail adress.

Yes, I read that. Thanks. I also sent you an email - waiting for your reply. :)

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

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Re: 1973 Description of the Bryde Bend

Unread postby KirkB » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:34 pm

botakatobi wrote: Jim Graham and John Uelses both discuss their effort to use the free take off in early editions of Ganslen's book.

I don't question the free takeoff at all. In fact, I'm quite sure that Pennel had (or strived for) a free takeoff too. Also Wolfgang Nordwig - and I've quoted what Nordwig told Ganslen about that.

What I'm questioning about Pennel is his idea of pushing with the bottom arm.

And YES, for some things, I have a memory like an elephant. I would not have tried to push with my bottom arm in HS if I had not read in Ganslen's book that Pennel did this! I'm positive of this.

Sorry for the rant, but Altius just questioned my memory in another thread (this thread, re: "What is your correct takeoff point?" http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=27151&start=12). So I'm a little annoyed right now. :mad:

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

botakatobi
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Re: 1973 Description of the Bryde Bend

Unread postby botakatobi » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:43 am

KirkB wrote:
botakatobi wrote: Jim Graham and John Uelses both discuss their effort to use the free take off in early editions of Ganslen's book.

I don't question the free takeoff at all. In fact, I'm quite sure that Pennel had (or strived for) a free takeoff too. Also Wolfgang Nordwig - and I've quoted what Nordwig told Ganslen about that.

What I'm questioning about Pennel is his idea of pushing with the bottom arm.

And YES, for some things, I have a memory like an elephant. I would not have tried to push with my bottom arm in HS if I had not read in Ganslen's book that Pennel did this! I'm positive of this.

Sorry for the rant, but Altius just questioned my memory in another thread (this thread, re: "What is your correct takeoff point?" http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=27151&start=12). So I'm a little annoyed right now. :mad:

Kirk


Kirk,

John personally told me in the late 1980's that he pushed with the bottom arm.

Craig


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