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hey this has been a constant problem for me. it have a pretty decent pole drop but i really want to perfect it. how should i go about doing this?

This is a good conversation to have on this forum because I think it's generally underemphasized.

The pole drop should be "active," meaning that the pole tip begins high and accelerates into the plant, effectively giving the pole a feeling of weightlessness and allowing the vaulter to maintain good posture, and by extension, good: run speed, turnover, takeoff, plant extension, pole angle. It is the most important prerequisite to the free takeoff.

To understand active pole drop, the cues are pretty basic:
1. The pole tip starts high - at or near vertical
2. The vaulter must keep the bottom arm elbow down, underneath the pole, with the bottom forearm close to the torso. This helps the vaulter control the pole and maintain awareness of the angle of the pole.
3. The pole tip is moving throughout the entire run
4. Control the pole drop with the top arm. The top hand comes up behind the torso
5. The pole tip crosses the plane of the face (without stopping) as the vaulter hits the third step out from takeoff and begins to plant.

Learning to execute the active pole drop is more difficult, usually because there are habits that the vaulter has to unlearn, such as:
1. Fixing the top hand to the hip at the beginning of the run - when the vaulter accelerates out of the back with a forward lean, the pole tip is immediately too low
2. Using an excessively wide grip, which creates tension and inhibits the vaulters ability to "feel" the correct angle of the pole as it's dropping
3. Steering the pole tip into the box with the bottom hand

There are lots of drills for this, but here are 3 "must haves" that I find work pretty well to correct the pole drop. Two of them everyone already knows.
1. Pole Runs
2. Walking plant drills - practicing the plant motion beginning slightly above eye level and crossing the eyes as you hit your left

The third is less popular
3. One arm running pole drops. No set run length here. Hold the pole in one hand, at vertical, use the shoulder to stabilize. Begin the run with a nice slow jog, short steps. As you let the pole tip drop, accelerate in time with the pole. Pull the top hand up behind the body to enable a plant on time. Plant as the pole tip crosses eye level. This drill is hard to time up at first, but once you figure it out it's easy. After doing it one handed, you can add your bottom hand back in as a "shadow hand" that just balances the pole a little bit, but doesn't support it. This drill is great because it has almost immediate transfer to the vault.

All excellent tips, CoachEric!

Just a few additional pointers ...

CoachEric wrote: 2. Using an excessively wide grip, which creates tension and inhibits the vaulters ability to "feel" the correct angle of the pole as it's dropping

Another advantage of a narrower grip is that it makes the plant much easier. You don't need to reach forwards as much, so your takeoff posture will be much better. You'll stay more square to the box.

CoachEric wrote: 3. Steering the pole tip into the box with the bottom hand

One huge advantage of the active pole carry/drop is that you only need to worry about the alignment of the pole in two dimensions (whereas if the pole tip is off to the side at the start of your run, you need to not only drop it, but also steer it to the right - for righties - into the box).

So the bottom hand can and should play a role in keeping the pole always in line with the box, but's that's very little, and that's ALL. Thus, you only have to worry about dropping the pole straight down - not down and to the right. Much simpler.

The grip with the top hand is also important. Do NOT try to grip the pole tightly with your entire hand from the start of your run - that will be too awkward and it won't feel comfortable. Instead, just hold it with your thumb and forefinger. The rest of your hand should be open. This puts your elbow into proper position. Rather than me explain any details of this, just try it both ways, and you'll immediately feel the difference. It's much more comfortable to grip the pole with only the thumb and forefinger. You only grip with all five fingers during the middle of your plant (as you raise the pole above your head) - not before.

Incidentally, the grip with the bottom hand should not be a tight grip either - balance the pole loosely in your bottom hand (a tight grip would rotate your elbow too far away from your body), with almost all the weight of the pole on the top hand. And as you're dropping the pole "weightlessly" during your run, you shouldn't have to force (forwards) or halt (backwards) the drop of the pole with the bottom hand (if your pole drop timing is perfect).

CoachEric wrote: 3. One arm running pole drops. No set run length here. Hold the pole in one hand, at vertical, use the shoulder to stabilize. Begin the run with a nice slow jog, short steps. As you let the pole tip drop, accelerate in time with the pole. Pull the top hand up behind the body to enable a plant on time. Plant as the pole tip crosses eye level. This drill is hard to time up at first, but once you figure it out it's easy. After doing it one handed, you can add your bottom hand back in as a "shadow hand" that just balances the pole a little bit, but doesn't support it. This drill is great because it has almost immediate transfer to the vault.

I've not tried this drill, but I know it will work quite well. It will put the emphasis on doing almost all of the work with the top hand. The bottom hand should be used just for minor balancing and steering.

Kirk Bryde

I should have just linked you to Posts #9-12 of my Bryde Bend thread here http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=15483&p=111416&hilit=drop#p111416.

They describe what I described in the post above, but with more detail.

Here's some quotable quotes from those posts ...

KirkB wrote:in reality the pole carry was a simple balancing act, and it was usually consistent – all the way into the pole-drop and plant.

KirkB wrote:I’m actually struggling for words to explain anything special that I did during the pole carry and drop, because really, all I did was balance it and drop it. It was that simple!

I will sometimes describe my technique in slightly different terms (with varying levels of detail) over the years, but it's based on the same FEEL that I had when I did it - that never varies.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that when you FEEL a good, high, weightless pole carry and pole drop, you'll KNOW IT! And you'll never want to go back to a low, side-carry!

Straightup, it would be helpful if you could post a vid of your pole carry/drop, so that we could give you some specific feedback.

Kirk Bryde

A lot of good stuff but -in my opinion - it is never a "Drop" but always a controlled lowering of the pole, using a specific movement pattern involving BOTH arms. As Petrov once said to me -tartly I must add - in response to a question I put to him about one arm drills with the pole, "When you have a competition for vaulting with one arm - I will use one arm drills". That said I know he sometimes took his right arm off the pole to show how it rotated about the left as a fulcrum when he was trying to make a point about this particular issue. (apologies to the lefties out there)

I have seen the one arm drill coach eric describes and if he says it has merit I am inclined to believe him; but I believe in the overall wisdom of what Petrov states and my experience suggests. I made the point in BTB2 that our sport attracts many weird and wonderful drills (as do all myths) - not saying this is - that seem to be fantastic - but when viewed in the hard light of day, are irrelevant. My main task now is to minimise the number of drills required to help youngsters progress and to ensure specificity at all times -and to sell that philosophy. I suspect the convoluted discussions about esoteric elements of technique will have confused rather than educated many folk - at these those who continued to try to follow the unending debate.

altius wrote:My main task now is to minimise the number of drills required to help youngsters progress and to ensure specificity at all times -and to sell that philosophy.

Point taken, Altius, and in the Beginning and Intermediate Technique Forums, I would never provide the level of detail that I provide on this Advanced Technique Forum.

For example, I would not advocate one-armed drills for beginners, or long runs for beginners. Not even high pole carries. I think you need to have a long run to have a high pole carry.

The poles are so light these days (especially short run poles for beginners) that I'm not sure about this. I don't really see the importance of a high pole carry for a beginner on a short run - there's bigger fish to fry, isn't there?

Kirk Bryde

"For example, I would not advocate one-armed drills for beginners, or long runs for beginners. Not even high pole carries. I think you need to have a long run to have a high pole carry. Kirk Bryde[/quote]

I would not use or advocate on arm drills with any level of athlete. Have never done so,never will - specificity is always the key if you do not want to waste training time. Hope that is definitive enough. And before anyone wants to start ripping into this opinion, please remember that I have had vast experience across every performance level with both male and female athletes in this event. As I keep trying to point out, while esoteric discussion of what I regard as minutiae may keep some folk happy, the objective of all of this analysis should be to clarify how we can best help athletes continue their development.

So we teach a six step (3/3) plant to beginners as soon as they make a commitment to become a vaulter. Once that is mastered to a reasonable level we then introduce a twelve step run up where the athlete walks/trots/jogs/runs/sprints 3 lefts/6 steps with an initial 45/60 angle carry, and then initiates the planting action - initially controlled by the left arm -sorry lefties! We emphasise a very precise movement pattern in all of this. My philosophy here is that we introduce committed learners to the advanced technical model almost from the beginning and should train to the same level of perfection that gymnasts aim for; because the athlete can control every element of technique from the first step to take off- after that it begins to get a bit more interesting. Since this only requires repetitive practice there is no excuse to not be perfect - IF you are serious about become a vaulter. AS the run up moves back -and we move folk back as soon as we think they are ready (note Jamie Scroop off 16 in Sudbury) - and the athlete moves to bigger poles/grips then we increase the initial pole angle a la Bubka.

We NEVER use the term pole drop although I am well aware the Petrov implies that this is what should happen. Probably does if you are gripping 5.07 and running at close to 10m/sec over the last six steps???? For us it is always a controlled lowering of the pole!

I firmly support the one arm drill. The only way for the pole to overcome its rotational inertia (about its axis in the middle of the pole while planting), and to allow maximum pole angle at takeoff, is to allow the pole tip to drop into the plant. The vaulter must be able to time the pole movement with the acceleration due to gravity. Doing so also removes tension from the bottom arm and allows the vaulter to run like a sprinter. Otherwise, the weight of the pole in the bottom arm will pull the athlete's center of mass forward, forcing him to strike with the foot in front of the hips.

KirkB said:
Do NOT try to grip the pole tightly with your entire hand from the start of your run - that will be too awkward and it won't feel comfortable. Instead, just hold it with your thumb and forefinger. The rest of your hand should be open.

I quibble with this only because I had no problem using a full grip myself as a vaulter. I felt like a full grip with the top hand made it easier for me to control the pole with a relaxed bottom hand. Elite vaulters are successful carrying the pole both ways, so I don't really think it makes a difference.

altius said:
specificity is always the key if you do not want to waste training time

Sure, but we do drills to learn movement patterns. Out of a pretty big toolbox of drills, there's only a few that I take out regularly. This is a good one.

Remember, Altius, that we're referring ONLY to elite vaulters on this Advanced Technique thread ...

CoachEric wrote:I quibble with this only because I had no problem using a full grip myself as a vaulter. I felt like a full grip with the top hand made it easier for me to control the pole with a relaxed bottom hand. Elite vaulters are successful carrying the pole both ways, so I don't really think it makes a difference.

CoachEric, are you saying that you used a high pole carry yourself? If so, then fair enough, but if I hadn't mentioned it, a vaulter reading this thread might not have thought about trying it. I STRONGLY encourage elite vaulters to at least experiment with this loose top hand grip.

You need only to try this with a broom handle right now to understand what I'm talking about. The difference is quite amazing!

This not only helps keep your pole EASILY aligned with the box (no side-carry at all), but it makes the plant MUCH smoother, and MUCH less awkward! Your shoulders stay MUCH more square to the box during the run AND during the plant.

Please try this each way with a broom handle (or a pole if you have one handy, of course), and let me know the pros and cons that you discover.

There are 2 CONs, but I will wait to see if you discover them (or think of them) yourself. The PROs far outweigh the CONs.

Kirk Bryde

Well CoachEric we will have to agree to disagree - I hope without becoming disagreeable, because I respect your willingness to contribute to several areas of the board - most notably the video section.

In BTB1 I did use the term ‘active pole drop’ but as I continued to work with athletes I realized that this was not a good descriptor of what actually happens. So now I never use the term ‘drop’ because IMHO the pole should ALWAYS be controlled by the bottom arm/hand ; gravity has something, but not a great deal to do with it. Clearly you are trying to deal with the great torque forces involved at the pole moves down; the more efficient the movement and timing of the elements are, the less will be the impact on the overall body alignment, and the easier it will be to move the pole into the ideal position for take off.

Again IMHO -and what I teach - is that the major pole lowering occurs (beginning six steps out) because the left hand moves forward from the chest under tight control(while the right hand remains of the hip) to approx.. 2/3 arm distance - elbow always under/outside the pole. This arm movement starts 6 steps from TO and is completed three steps out, Then with the left arm extended - still ideally at chest level – elbow out and under - the left hand acts as fulcrum for the pole to rotate around as the right arm moves up -again controlling the pole. Of course with a lot of pole ahead of the bottom arm, torque forces will operate to bring the tip down but it should always be under control -never falling freely. Note that this entire movement is easy even for committed beginners to master –SEE KURTIS and DECLAN in “And in the real word….”

Of course I have never coached a guy jumping 6.15 so it may be that at that level the pole does drop freely under gravity. I do know that Petrov argued that if a pole is allowed to fall freely from a high angle -it will take about the same time to come down as Bubka took to run the last six steps. However my observations of Bubka suggest that there was a gradual lowering of the pole throughout the entire run so that it was not at a big angle six steps out. I also know that when Petrov came to Adelaide in 99 he said that my athletes tended to reach six steps out with the pole 10/15 degrees too high - he wanted it around 45 degrees at this point. Now if that is the case it is difficult to see how it is possible to time a free drop from six steps out. Note that at the time I was only coaching Junior boys up to 5.40 and girls to 4.40 so it may have been specific to those performance levels.

However even when I worked with Chystiakov -5.90 – (Incidentally using a 17’/235 pole) and as a foot catcher for Markov -6.05- neither of them ever talked about a "free" pole drop. It was always controlled.

In fact a long time before this discussion started I had begun to think that the notion of a free pole drop - attractive as it is from a biomechanical perspective - was an urban myth - one of many that seems to surround this great event. But each to his own. For me experience with athletes is the primary driver of any insight I might have and the methods I use and advocate. And that means controlling the pole in the manner indicated above and NEVER doing one arm drills.

Still, like all coaches, I am a work in progress so who knows when I will have an experience –for I trust my actual experience with vaulters above all things – that will change my mind.

Well Kirk I never think in terms of technique for ‘elites’. I think of working models of technique for absolute beginners, a basic model for kids prepared to compete but not train seriously and an advanced model for those who want to become ‘pole vaulters.’

Both of the introductory models contain elements of the advanced model because you must never introduce a ‘dead end’ technique that brings early success but does not lead to the advanced model. All of that is in BTB somewhere.

This means that as soon as kids make a genuine commitment, we introduce the advanced model – the Petrov/Bubka model. The results of our efforts are shown in BTB1 and 2 and the DVD and more recently with 15 year olds Curtis and Declan in, “And in the real world…” We do not claim that any of them ‘jump like Bubka’ –that would be ridiculous but we do claim that they are/were beginning to exploit some of the advantages of that advanced model. So for us, elite lies in ability to master the advanced technical model, not in the height jumped.

Consider that I have been trying – discreetly and without success – to suggest that while many of the athletes at the NCAA indoors were elite in terms of the height jumped (cf world standards before 1976) they were not elite (except in the eyes of their mothers and coaches) in terms of the techniques they were employing. And in essence they were not achieving –perhaps were never going to achieve their full potential because of the limitations of their technical model.

I take the view that technical improvement leads to better performance – and we saw a great leap forward when Russian methods were picked up. There did not appear to be a great leap forward in performance during the period when you say they were using the same approach. I ask again why not? Here I am always going back to the context of pole vaulting in Adelaide in particular and OZ in general – see Chapter 3 in BTB2 which looks at the impact of “the context” in which coaching occurs, on performance. So in a place where pole vaulting should not really exist in terms of the context, Patrick Jesser jumped 5.40 at 19 and Matt Filsell 5.45 aged 20. Both left school at 15 to find work –could never train seriously, had incredibly limited competition opportunities and no real incentive to improve (IE to gain college scholarships) other than their own motivation – and of course a part time volunteer coach. What did they have going for them – a dilettante’s translation of the Petrov model!! Even that – perhaps distorted vision –of the model was enough to help athletes with no great physical parameters (although Matt was a good high jumper) to perform at a good level. In fact if we had had better medical support here both ‘might have’ won their respective world junior championships in 1996 and 2000.

So again why did not athletes who have every advantage in terms age, experience, motivation and support jump MUCH higher than these lads?

But I agree –we are always going to disagree so I promise you I will let this particular issue drop. If you want the last hurrah on it you can have it!

Since we are looking at historical issues here – some folk reading this may be interested to know that the concept of ‘working’, ‘basic’ and ‘advanced’ technical models evolved at Dr Challoner’s Grammar school in England in the 1960s when I was faced with the challenge of introducing the great sport of track and field to large classes of boys of varying physical types, abilities and interests in a limited time. It became clear there was little point in introducing the advanced techniques of the greats so I took each event back to the bare bones and, apart from the steeplechase and walks, introduced them to every boy by the age of 15. Hence the photo of Steve Chappell in both books – I still have the performances he recorded on the class list for 1966!

altius wrote: Consider that I have been trying – discreetly and without success – to suggest that while many of the athletes at the NCAA indoors were elite in terms of the height jumped (cf world standards before 1976) they were not elite (except in the eyes of their mothers and coaches) in terms of the techniques they were employing. And in essence they were not achieving –perhaps were never going to achieve their full potential because of the limitations of their technical model.

... So again why did not athletes who have every advantage in terms age, experience, motivation and support jump MUCH higher than these lads?

But I agree –we are always going to disagree so I promise you I will let this particular issue drop. If you want the last hurrah on it you can have it!

I'm not sure what all this has to do with a perfect active pole drop, but I do get your point re the NCAA indoors. I haven't studied all the vaulters, but I know Jack Whitt's technique is not Petrov.

And I don't consider us on opposing sides of the fence re the NCAA or in terms of US vaulters in general. I think I'm asking the same questions you are!

Now that I heard the news from the Texas Relays today, I will be taking a much close look at Shawn Barber and Sam Kendricks. They both had quite a day, and what thrills me the most is that Barber is Canadian! Mind you, he grew up in Texas, which is a better, warmer place to learn to PV than Canada, but as a freshman, he looks VERY promising!

We may both need to eat a bit of crow once we study their vaults. At this point, I have no idea of either of their technical models, but I will certainly be watching their vids!

I'm not going to comment any further here tho - we're on the wrong thread!

Kirk Bryde