AGENDA 21 (Final draft)

This is a forum to discuss advanced pole vaulting techniques. If you are in high school you should probably not be posting or replying to topics here, but do read and learn.
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Re: AGENDA 21 (Final draft)

Unread postby PVDaddy » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:34 am

Clymb, The earliest information I received about inversion beyond vertical was from Tim Werner's site and an article or video I saw from, I believe Pfaff, somewhere were he used the term "Negative Inversion"? I did discover your video later and must say it is the BEST information I have seen on the subject! I did take a great deal of your thoughts and concepts later on and relayed them in a way very similar to your own as they were still fresh in my mind. The ideas surrounding many of these concepts were still brewing around here and I purposely did not make link to any of the sources, because, I wanted to see how they would be received and because I did not know the link to the original source? For that I apologize. Your thoughts and Video are by far the most awesome info I have come across on the subject! You also deserve credit by being the biggest promoter of this and what what I believe is a very important subject matter!
I have linked your videos on many post I have made! I hope that is ok for me to continue to do so?! Would you mind telling me about any area of confusion I may have on this subject, as I really want to understand all its finer points?
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Re: AGENDA 21 (Final draft)

Unread postby clymb » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:58 pm

PVDaddy, I appreciate your passion for learning and love of the event. I'll get back to you soon as I just posted on another thread, which has caused me to spend way too much time on this board for one day. Catch up with you soon and happy vaulting.

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Re: AGENDA 21 (Final draft)

Unread postby PVDaddy » Fri May 03, 2013 1:31 am

ADDITIONAL OPPORTUNITIES TO ADD ACTIVE ENERGY

As I was studying Sergey Bubka's first 6 meter vault I realized there are yet still opportunities to add additional active energy into the vault that Bubka exploits that must be added to Agenda 21 (I will be coming out with what I hope is the final version soon to complete my project).

After Bubka breaks at the hips and his whip foot shin comes to the top of the pole and he is maintaining pressure on the poles fulcrum (Top hand. Just as he always does from Inverse-C through active-I through L to rock back to invert-I. If he did not the pole would uncoil faster) in that leaned back position (Spine bent) he has additional opportunities to add additional vertical energy to the flyaway and fully exploits them by doing the following:

1) He makes sure his head and shoulders drop back together behind the top arm (ephasis) (The chord of the pole) to serve as a counterweight to help bring the hips and legs up. see saw effect. This also improves his inverted position.

2) As the whip leg meets meets the drive knee from this rocked back position (Spine bent) he forcefully extends the drive leg (Straightens it out) heal skyward along with the whip heal through the hip (powerful muscle group). This adds great inertia to the upward propulsion of the hips and legs.

3) At the same time he forcefully extends the hips (Spine bent) upward by straightening out his spine through the use of his abdomen and back muscles (Also powerful muscle groups) and extends the hip ALL the way to the top arm (It can go no further and he makes FULL use of that range of motion!).

4) Finally he makes full use of the muscles around both shoulders (The last axis of rotation) to straighten the body up along the pole and to bring the hip to his top arm elbow.

ALL 4 OF THESE ACTIONS ALL ADD ADDITIONAL VERTICAL ENERGY TO ONE INTEGRATED SYSTEM AND MUST NOT BE OVERLOOKED!

check it out for yourself (Frames: 10-12) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-UwBaf8f98
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Re: AGENDA 21 (Final draft)

Unread postby PVDaddy » Wed May 08, 2013 12:35 am

What SHOULD the bottom arm do?

Well it helps carry the pole. It swings (elbow) forward with the opposite leg as you run with the pole. It serves as a fulcrum through the thumb and forefinger as you lower the pole. It moves forward with the penultimate step as you plant the pole in the box. It moves up, with the elbow facing out, with the hand above the head to complete the plant. It moves back with its hand above the head and the elbow is flexed in, as you load the pole/vaulter system. It straightens out( is extended) as you swing from the inverted-c position to the L-position. It pulls through the shoulders at the exact moment you hit the L-position and this pull continues until your swing leg comes to the top of the pole and then is seamlessly transferred into a strong push toward the pit as you lay your shoulders back to inversion, assist the turn and helps propel the vaulter skyward off the pole at fly-away. The bottom arm does a lot!

Pushing out and forward on the pole with the bottom hand From Inverted-C, when the bottom hand is over the head through Active-I is a very critical factor of greatly accelerating the downswing whip!

This action of extending the bottom arm out and forward is very important for several reasons. It greatly increases the full coil effect of the vaulters body down the vaulters spine all the way to the whip leg toe throughout the entire downswing and part of the upswing, because it is moving away from it. This maintains the tension and the pressure on the body coil ( the body flexes and coils very similar to the pole). It also places greater pressure on the top hand which allows the swing to occur were it should on that axis of rotation. It also places a higher and deeper bend on the pole and assist in moving the pole in the vertical direction. It is very important for the vaulter to maintain continuous pressure on the poles fulcrum (top hand) along the chord of the pole throughout the entire second phase (Off-ground) of the vault. The object is to keep the pole from uncoiling as much as possible until you are negatively inverted in line with the chord of the pole.
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Re: AGENDA 21 (Final draft)

Unread postby PVDaddy » Tue May 21, 2013 10:54 pm

Re: pushing back out during the swing?
by PVDaddy » Tue May 21, 2013 9:55 pm

As I have previously stated in Agenda 21, I believe the correct time to perform the bottom hand pull (Which is pulling action through the shoulder and lats and most of that pull should occur through the top hand (The Poles fulcrum) at the exact moment the vaulter breaks at the hips. It should occur during the UPSWING not the downswing! I After the deep penetration of the body through the arms and after the shoulder girdles have been fully stretched and come to a stop (Arrested) the Vaulter/Pole system gets fully loaded (The body is flexible just like the pole and bends just like it, in the same direction and shape. The term pole loading must be discarded, it fails to describe the fact that the Vaulter is also loaded as denoted by the inverse-C position) The whip will begin automatically (Stretch reflex).
I believe the forward extension of the bottom hand (In line with the pole (not adjacent to it) and in the same direction it wants to move) fully complies with Petrov's philosophy of always keep the pole moving. This forward extension of the bottom arm Bubka employs during his downswing, maintains the pressure and stretch on the full body coil (From the top hand through the spine to the swing leg toe). This place the center of gravity lower on the vaulters body, because, it pushes him as far away from the pole as possible and creates a long, deep, powerful, pendulum swing just like a gymnast does on a high bar.

Pole vault – the state of the art
By Vitaly Petrov
: It is worth
mentioning here that the arrest of the shoulders after the deep penetration ensures the
drive of the hips upwards to the pole, through
active unbending of the left arm



How to perform a Tap Swing on a high bar (As Taken from a gymnastic site)

An aggressive effective tap swing is key to a dynamic high bar routine.
The gymnast should be hollow in the rear phase of the swing. Head in, hollow chest and pushing away from the bar on the downward swing.
As the gymnast passes between the uprights they should open to prepare for the tap. (Most gymnasts open the swing early causing the tap to go forward and not upward)
As the gymnast begins the upwards phase of the forward swing they should tap aggressively towards the ceiling.
As the upwards swing rises the gymnast should pull the bar back and push away to get their center of gravity as far away from the bar as possible for the downward swing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-UwBaf8f98
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Re: AGENDA 21 (Final draft)

Unread postby david bussabarger » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:27 pm

I have never heard anyone ever mention Toby Stevenson's incredible vault at 5.85 in the 04 olympic trials. He looks to have had half a meter or more hip height at the peak of his vault. It is important to also note that technically Toby had a one of a kind style that violated most of the tenents of the Petrov/Bubka "model" ( under take-off point, stiff arming the pole during the take off and a prounced tucking action during the rock-back ).

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Re: AGENDA 21 (Final draft)

Unread postby altius » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:52 pm

c/f Bubka's "incredible vault" in winning the 1997 World championships when he clearly had 30 centimetres above a 6.01 bar.
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Re: AGENDA 21 (Final draft)

Unread postby PVDaddy » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:05 am

The Pole Vault TAP swing

The TAP swing" performed by World Class Gymnast and Vaulters alike should not be confused with the TAP of the swing. The Gymnast and the vaulter both bend at the knee to raise their feet while allowing the chest, torso, and hips to pass between their hands and feet into a hollowed out full body stretch position (The full body coil). This is the key position to begin the swing and is why penetration is so so important. From this full bodied coiled position the Gymnast and the vaulter are able to generate a tremendous amount of power as they come out of the coil. The body of the gymnast and vaulter must be as extended as much as possible in a straight line from the hand to the heel to release as much swing energy as possible coming out of the downswing and going into the upswing. This occurs for the vaulter when they are at a 45 degree angle with their heel extended toward the pit and is termed the Active-I position. This position is the TAP of the swing. If the vaulter performs this correctly they will "Feel" the axis of rotation on the top hand. This TAP swing was taught and learned by Bubka from his early days in gymnast school while on the high bar under the old Soviet system. He carried it forward to the pole vault. I believe it is imperative that we as coaches teach our vaulters " The TAP swing! I want to give credit to Brian Clymer, Tim Werner and Brian Mackenzie for providing me with most of my incite on the Pole vault TAP swing.
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Re: AGENDA 21 (Final draft)

Unread postby PVDaddy » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:06 am

So to sum it up IMHO these are the 5 key components of the Pole Vault TAP that we as coaches should be looking for.

1.) Great penetration and position post take off into the full body stretch (reverse-C) while..

2.) the trail leg is being elevated.
I believe other than the fact that this increases the swings range of motion, the elevation of the trail leg also has the added benefit of serving as a counter weight to improve the vaulters body position. (Note these are my own thoughts and I have not read about this anywhere).

3.) The most vigorous downswing (Whipping action) the vaulter can possibly generate (If I was listing order of importance this would be number 1 by far!) while..

4) The bottom hand is re-extended both upward and forward with the pole (I believe the top hand also gets extended to a small degree as the elbow is very slightly flexed). IMHO I believe this moves the vaulter further away from the pole which makes the lever longer and more powerful with great coil range through shoulders and arms , assist in getting the shoulders back and the hips up,lowers the vaulters COG toward the feet and maintains constant pressure on the full body coil and the pole throughout the downswing.

5.) Complete extension of the entire body from the top hand to the swing leg heel, by stretching the swing leg heel to the pit. This is the culmination of the Pole vault foot tap and is termed Active-I.

Many believe there also exist a second opportunity for the vaulter to perform another tapping action at the top of the swing as the gymnast does at dismount and is the subject of my future research.
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Re: AGENDA 21 (Final draft)

Unread postby altius » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:58 am

"is the subject of my future research."

Does that RESEARCH involve working with actual athletes?
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

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Re: AGENDA 21 (Final draft)

Unread postby PVDaddy » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:16 am

Yes it does. High school and now college.
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Re: AGENDA 21 (Final draft)

Unread postby altius » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:19 pm

Well that is a start. However I can assure that if you start introducing athletes to the information you are presenting here, you will not keep them with you for long. However do keep us informed of their progress - and do post some film of them as they master the intricacies of your 'model'.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden


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