AGENDA 21

This is a forum to discuss advanced pole vaulting techniques. If you are in high school you should probably not be posting or replying to topics here, but do read and learn.
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PVDaddy
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AGENDA 21

Unread postby PVDaddy » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:35 am

Ok here it is Folks!

Agapit, A Russian Coach, who is considered by many in the Pole Vault world to be the leading Scholar (Although I have Great admiration for him and his continued contributions as a coach, for me its is still Petrov) on cutting edge pole vault technique , has had for some time now his Pole Vault Manifesto, his 6.4 Model (Which I now believe he calls M640 and represents 6.4 Meters) which has been tried by some Elite vaulters, with limited success and still no one has come close to breaking the World record or even duplicating Bubkas jump (which Scientist say was somewhere around 6.4 Meters!) So to me this proves that 6.4 is not only possible but has already been demonstrated. (Although not over the bar, at least not yet!). Like Agapit I desperately want to see a new WR. I believe that Agenda 21 will contribute to seeing this dream of many become a reality.

May I begin by telling you a bit about myself? I am a Pole Vault Nobody. In fact, I have been assigned by the Monitor of this board as PV Wannabe. My only hands on experience with the Pole vault was in High School where I had a fiberglass pole so over-weighted for my weight that I could not come close to bending it. I managed at my best vault, to stiff pole, and limp over 10.5 Ft.!

I was however, very strong for my size and managed to bench press 225 Lbs when only weighing 112 Lbs (That's over twice my weight for those good at math) and set our School record of 29 perfect pull-ups. I also set our School record in Wrestling and was All State on two occasions. My Greatest contribution to the sport of Wrestling has been as a coach, were i have been fortunate enough to have coached 7 High School State Champions and 4 National High School Champions ( 2 young men and 2 young Women) 3 of whom are currently enjoying full ride scholarships at very prominent Universities. I continue to coach high School wrestling to this date.

I tell you that so you know, I do have some understanding of good athletic technique and Bio-Mechanics. Anyone that has competed in wrestling (or mixed martial Arts) at a high level can appreciate the extreme value of great technique as your body is in an infinite number of positions, and maximizing leverage through position, technique and speed and knowing when and how to apply force is critical.

It is my love of great technique (Having experienced first hand its benefits) which has lead me to my current fascination and obsession with Pole Vaulting. There exist very few athletic events that require absolute perfection, over such a long period of continuous chain events, with each event building upon the next, requiring perfect muscle memory and precision throughout, to achieve the desired outcome, as the pole vault. That's why i absolutely love and admire it!

I am an American, and because we mostly here still think in terms of English units of measure, In this case feet (6.4 meters =21 Ft.) I have chosen to call this method Agenda 21.

In advance I want to make it very clear that ALL of my ideas in this method have come from others, Particularly Vitally Petrov, and by studying his fine student and Athlete, Sergey Bubka. The only thing that sets this Model Apart from the Petrov Model, is what I feel are very important and critical elements that I have observed, and relate only to the off the ground phase of the vault that have not been mentioned in the Petrov Model ,whether intentionally or unintentionally?

More to come.......
Every jot and every tittle adds up to more than just a little.

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Re: AGENDA 21

Unread postby PVDaddy » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:49 pm

Pole Selection: Obviously a pole must be selected to meet the ideal resistance required to completely uncoil at true vertical at the exact time the vaulter begins fly-away (see Fly-away below for definition and proper pole selection).

Fly-away: Flyaway is defined as beginning at the moment the bottom hand leaves the pole.
The pole is no longer propelling the vaulter in this phase. The vaulter adds the last share of energy with the top-hand push, and then begins free-fall as gravity is now the only force in action.

This author believes that the first phase of the vault as described in the Petrov model describes the ideal pole carry, run up, plant, and take off. There can be no better take off than a free take off! The only additions to the Petrov model this author is making in this model are in regards to the off-the-ground phase of the vault, and mainly concern the use of the bottom hand. Because the majority of energy added to the vault occurs at run up, it is imperative that this phase of the vault be mastered. Again, a vaulter must always strive for a free take off into the stretched inverted C position.

The most amount of energy added to the vault during the second (off-the-ground) phase is The Whip (Whipping up action of the trail leg). The whip begins immediately with the pre-stretched leg (Imperative for creating whip speed, Medically termed Stretch-Reflex) out of the inverted C, and continues to the top of the pole. All effort must be made to generate as much speed and energy during the whip as possible!


Use of the bottom hand:

This aspect of the vault is not fully elaborated on by Petrov, and constitutes this author's major critique and contribution.

The bottom hand performs both a pulling action and then a pushing action. Both add energy to the vault. Both actions are critical to this model.

The bottom hand must perform a strong pull at the appropriate time. The appropriate time to pull (this is were i see Bubka initiate it) would be as one approaches the point of bending at the hips in the whip(contraction of the abdomen muscles would be felt by the vaulter at this time in the whip and is the indicator of when to pull!) and the pull must continues through inversion as the hips and legs are propelled upward. This adds speed to the whip and also gets the vaulter to inversion quicker out ahead of the uncoiling pole. This is imperative.

The bottom hand must perform a strong push toward the pit. This positions the vaulter in the air (Fly-away has begun) for the turn and all important top hand push and adds critical energy to the fly-away. This bottom hand release (after bottom hand push) must occur simultaneously with the final straightening of the pole. This is imperative to maximize efficiency in the vertical direction.

It is very important to note that this author does not intend to suggest the bottom hand pull and bottom hand push as two separate entities. Conversely, the object is to seamlessly blend the bottom hand pull directly into the bottom hand push as the bottom hand crosses the plane of the chest. This changes the direction of the force exerted by the bottom hand from towards the body, to away from the body--aiding in the overall objective (going up) the entire time!

One cannot over-emphasize the importance of the top hand push. This is agreed upon by everyone. In Bubka's famous jump, however, simply calling his final action a "push" does not do justice to his effort. Rather, Bubka makes his last effort his strongest, as it is the last opportunity to add energy to his fly-away. Perhaps the correct term for this action is a reverse "shot-put" of his entire body!

Finally, I want to dispel the myth that Bubka is a superior athletic specimen as compared to all other elite vaulters in the world, and that is the reason no one has been able to duplicate his efforts. To the contrary, there are many taller (this adds mechanical advantage) and faster ( Run up speed (particularly the last three steps) is the single largest contributor of energy to the vault) elite vaulters than Bubka. The reason for Bubkas success then are clearly related to the off ground phase of his vault (As described in this method).

Who has achieved the flyaway heights of Bubka in his famous vault?
No one yet, but, when the elite vaulters of this planet choose to train for and implement the techniques described in this method, they will once again soar, like Bubka soared, and will set new world records, and may even reach 21 feet, fulfilling the dream of this author in AGENDA 21.
Every jot and every tittle adds up to more than just a little.

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Re: AGENDA 21

Unread postby PVDaddy » Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:57 pm

The following link provides the best footage I have ever seen of Bubka Illustrating the proper use of the Bottom hand. Fortunately for us, this is his Famous Vault and many believe the best vault EVER achieved! Suffice to say, he must be doing something right!

Before I provide the link, and you go to it, I am requesting that you print this, and then examine the frames, so that you can clearly see When and how he performs the proper pull and push action of the bottom arm.

Moment bottom hand Pull should begin: Frames 3:55-3:59. Note engagement of the abdomen muscles just prior to bending at the hips.

Examples of correct bottom hand Pull: Frames 6:21-6:23. World Record: Frames 7:09-7:11


Example of correct Bottom hand Push: Frames 5:04-5:12. Note pole completely uncoils at exact moment of bottom hand release.

Example of top hand push Frames 5:11-5:15.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QribYk ... sults_main
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Re: AGENDA 21

Unread postby master » Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:33 pm

PVDaddy wrote:May I begin by telling you a bit about myself? I am a Pole Vault Nobody. In fact, I have been assigned by the Monitor of this board as PV Wannabe.

Unless I am mistaken, the assignment of "PV Wannabe" is based solely on the number of posts made. As you make more posts, your descriptor will change. ;)
- master . . . http://www.plvlt.com

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Re: AGENDA 21

Unread postby PVDaddy » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:11 pm

No You are not mistaken. I have since learned that so I can stop whining now! LOL
However, I would suggest you go up in rank by the number of post you read!
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Re: AGENDA 21

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:39 pm

PVDaddy wrote:No You are not mistaken. I have since learned that so I can stop whining now! LOL
However, I would suggest you go up in rank by the number of post you read!


Haha if there was an easy way to do that, I would.

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Re: AGENDA 21

Unread postby grandevaulter » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:54 pm

I was honored to pass from Dweeb to Dork. I was also an average high school vaulter that has re entered the track and field world and had some success coaching, using 30 year old drills, techniques and myths. I have read the continuous chain several times and it makes so much sense. I have read the manifesto once and will delve deeper into it. I am currently implementing Alan Launders BTB2 drills, studying the book and videos. BTB2 breaks down the Petrov model and the Bubka vault as well as average kids using the same model ( with success) This is very exciting !

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Re: AGENDA 21

Unread postby altius » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:02 pm

Thanks for the commercial old son - glad to see that you are applying the ideas in BTB. Because in my view that is critical - while the sort of discussion involved in Agenda 21 is always interesting, in reality it only covers issues that have been dealt with many times on PVP. I am not saying it should not be undertaken because it obviously helps the writer clarify their ideas - a process they must benefit from just as a phd student benefits from their dissertation - even if it contributes nothing to human progress.

However I really believe the challenge is to get many more coaches not only accepting but EMPLOYING the Petrov/Bubka model. I still see film of athletes - often very talented ones -whose coaches still do not use this model - or even appear to know that it exists. That is one of the reasons that I hope we get a good turn out of coaches to the series of clinics I am conducting with talented US coaches this summer.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

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Re: AGENDA 21

Unread postby PVDaddy » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:49 am

I purchased the DVD beginner to Bubka. There are things that you can see in a video that you don't always get in a book. I have found it to be very beneficial.
It is very encouraging to see a variety of young athletes using the Petrov/Bubka model with great success.
I am certain that any coach would benefit his athletes by using the techniques and drills shown in it.
A very good contribution to the pole vault world Altius!

Altius said:

"Agenda 21 is always interesting, in reality it only covers issues that have been dealt with many times on PVP. I am not saying it should not be undertaken because it obviously helps the writer clarify their ideas - a process they must benefit from just as a phd student benefits from their dissertation - even if it contributes nothing to human progress"

Wow! Where to start? Should I even address this statement? It feels like a huge distractor and waste of energy!
For now I will take the bait. Perhaps it is good that I take the time to clarify (even though I have already) in greater detail my reasons for creating Agenda 21. I will get straight to the point. Sergey Bubka is not the only athlete capable of pole vaulting 6.14 Meters! There have been many athletes capable of doing it. Sheesh! How long has it been? 16 years? Houston, I think we have a problem!?

I will tell you why it has not happened. There are elements in his vault that have not been universally identified and condensed into a workable model that can be used by the coaches. At least not a Model capable of producing the heights Bubka achieved. The real world has demonstrated this to be true.

The Petrov Model was first developed (Like every inventor Petrov had to clarify his ideas in righting first) and then try to teach them to Bubka. I'm certain that Bubka, and even you and your students Altius , have benefited from from Petrov's model!? How can you say clarifying ideas has added nothing to human progress? Really?????

But like what so many time happens in coaching, the teacher gets taught a thing or two, from the student. I certainly have.
Even Agapit said, I'm not sure they were even aware of what they had created at the time. Perhaps Petrov had failed to identify a few key elements that Bubka had demonstrated, or that he did, but failed to mention them in his Method, whether intentionally or not?
The greatest coach I have ever known would always say; "it is the smallest of nuances that make all the difference!" He was absolutely adamant that his student perfect their technique to the smallest of detail. He is now in the coaches hall of fame and is considered by many to be the greatest coach of his sport.

I know without a doubt, there are some nuances (which add up to a lot of missed energy) missing in the Petrov/Bubka Model and even if they have been mentioned elsewhere and are scattered all over this forum and have not been condensed into a single model they are doing nobody any good.

Now, back to Agenda 21. More to come......
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Re: AGENDA 21

Unread postby PVDaddy » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:03 am

Wow! I just now graduated to Pole Vault DorK! Woo Hoooo!
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Re: AGENDA 21

Unread postby altius » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:21 am

How can you say clarifying ideas has added nothing to human progress? Really?????

Perhaps I stated it poorly - what I was implying was that even if a study contributes nothing to human progress - and many dissertations do not because they are simply replicating work already done - the exercise is still worthwhile for the individual undertaking the study. I do appreciate your enthusiasm, but like a number of folk who appear on PVP periodically there appears to be - the hint - of an assumption that the rest of us are dumb bunnies who are not continually searching for better ways to do things. That is what coaches continually do.

So while I hope that your studies do result in new information or even wisdom, unless you have the opportunity to work with a group of talented athletes and try out your ideas with them, I am doubtful that they will. I certainly hope you do not intend to take a purely theoretical approach -we have indeed seen those before and while they are interesting they do not move practice forward. And that is what I am interested in - the sort of process that my friend Botcharnikov is undertaking with Angy Rummans for example; we will see what emerges from that challenge.

In fact what I am really waiting for is film of hordes of young vaulters who have begun to master elements of the model. Because my thesis - oft repeated on pvp -is that it is possible for youngsters to exploit at least some elements of the model even if they do not have the time or ability to master all of it. I just want to see evidence that that is happening. Instead I am still seeing evidence that even talented youngsters are not being exposed to any element of the model. In fact the reverse is true in many cases, where youngsters are being taught old technical models.

So while I have reservations, anything is possible, so if you can come up with improvements in the Petrov/Bubka technical model, and show how they can be employed to improve the performance of ordinary youngsters, I will be very pleased to see them.

Glad to have you aboard!!! :yes:
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

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Re: AGENDA 21

Unread postby PVDaddy » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:35 am

Altius said: "So while I have reservations, anything is possible, so if you can come up with improvements in the Petrov/Bubka technical model, and show how they can be employed to improve the performance of ordinary youngsters, I will be very pleased to see them."

I want to answer the second question first. Agenda 21 is not a method that applies only to elite pole vaulters. It further clarifies the Petrov/Bubka Model in the off the ground phase of the vault clarifying the ideal use of the Pull/Push of the arms. It should be trained for from the very beginning. It will help any vaulter achieve greater results.

How is it an improvement in the Petrov/Bubka Model? First of all I want to make it very clear, Bubka demonstrates Agenda 21 in his famous vault. I am not reinventing anything! I am merely clarifying how he does it. Does Petrov clarify in his Model exactly when and how to begin Pulling? Does Petrov clarify in his method when and how to Push? No he does not! Think that might be important? I am telling you that not only is it important, but that it is the most important aspect of the vault that coaches are missing because it has not been universally clarified!

In the next post I will further elaborate on the when and how to Push/Pull.
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